ICE told to get the eff out
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You always get stuck in the weeds and ignore obvious statements like "It's a broad crime encompassing many actions". That has an obvious meaning.
The basic argument is:
1) were ICE conducting a lawful investigation and enforcement? Probably.
2) Were the Goods aware of this. Yes - that is why they were there. (point 1 covered).
3) Did the Goods intend to obstruct, influence, or impede that proceeding or its participants. Probably based on the information we have (thats point 2 covered).
Then separately, would a reasonable person say that Rebecca Good's actions, in encouraging her wife to flee, amount to obstructing and impeding the lawful activity of the ICE officers Baring in mind we have already exhausted any right to resist unlawful arrest.
There are obvious grounds for an offence to be investigated.
The basic argument is:
1) were ICE conducting a lawful investigation and enforcement? Probably.
2) Were the Goods aware of this. Yes - that is why they were there. (point 1 covered).
3) Did the Goods intend to obstruct, influence, or impede that proceeding or its participants. Probably based on the information we have (thats point 2 covered).
Then separately, would a reasonable person say that Rebecca Good's actions, in encouraging her wife to flee, amount to obstructing and impeding the lawful activity of the ICE officers Baring in mind we have already exhausted any right to resist unlawful arrest.
There are obvious grounds for an offence to be investigated.
1) Yes
2) Yes
3) No; Renee and Becca intended to observe, video, and make a lot of noise. All totally legal under the US constitution.
First of all, the answer to 3) means that the activity (ordering Renee to leave the car) wasn't lawful.
But even if you are correct and order to leave the car was lawful, a prosecutor needs to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Becca had specific intent for Renee to flee and that Renee acted because of what she heard Becca say.
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It still all boils down to common sense and seeing what happened with your eyes. We saw a couple of very obnoxious lesbians trying it on with Ice. Obstructing the road and driving and impacting an agent. Surely the lawyers must look at this and think. She got shot through her own doing. Her wife instigated it as well. Unfortunately she died from her injuries. That wasn’t the ICE agents fault. It was hers.
A very forensic analysis. Bravo. You have managed to address all the key legal points objectively and dispassionately. Have you ever thought of applying to be a magistrate.
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It is all down to common sense and upbringing. You do wrong and you suffer the consequences. She will have to accept that you follow the law or risk being shot.
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3 is something that experts can't agree on.
We've already established there is no right to resist.
She paused to allow her wife to get in the car, she saw that ICE agents were getting close to getting the door open and surrounding her, the wife told her to go go go/move move move etc and she did.
In fact she went from having a polite conversation with the first ICE officer, to the escalation from her Wife, to fleeing after being told to stop.
How did the wife escalate things. Was it when she called the agent 'big boy' or when she told him it was time for his lunch break.
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some 1500ish people are shot dead by US Police each year. Of those large numbers are unarmed or suspected of non-violent crimes.
Most people know in America that you do as you are told and Sue after.
Years ago I approached a traffic cop, when ridding the big Sur on a Harley, to ask directions. The first thing he did was step back and put his hand on his gun. I popped my flip lid and said we are British tourists and a bit lost, can you point us in the direction of a motel. I nearly **** myself. He totally relaxed once I spoke. Its totally different out there.
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You are still not being objective.
I am being totally objective. I am using her exact words which were completely benign. What was it about her words or behaviour that you believe escalated the situation.
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At 09:35:05 Central Standard Time (UTC−06:00), Good's maroon Honda Pilot SUV was stopped sideways leftward on the one-way Portland Avenue. Ross drove his SUV around, stopped ahead of her, began recording video, and stepped out with his face covered. He walked in front of her SUV, and she backed up the vehicle. Ross walked toward and around Good's SUV while recording her face and rear license plate. Good told him, "That's fine, dude. I'm not mad at you." At 09:36:51, Good's partner Becca stood behind their SUV, also recording on her cell phone, and said, "Show your face. That's OK. We don't change our plates every morning, just so you know. This will be the same plate when you come talk to us later. That's fine. US citizen, former ****ing veteran, disabled veteran."
Good drove her SUV slightly forward. At 09:36:58, a Ford Explorer entered Portland Avenue, Good waved, apparently to indicate that the Ford should pass in front of her SUV, which it did, along with another vehicle.[1][53] Meanwhile, Ross returned to the right side of Good's SUV and switched his phone from his right hand to his left hand while Becca said: "You wanna come at us? You wanna come at us? I say go get yourself some lunch, big boy." As Good continued waving, a Nissan Titan stopped to the left side of her SUV and two more ICE agents stepped out.
An eyewitness said ICE agents gave conflicting orders, with one telling Good to drive away while another shouted at her to get out of the SUV. At 09:37:08, the ICE agents from the Nissan pickup approached Good's SUV as one of them repeatedly ordered her to "get out of the ****ing car". Good remained in her vehicle and put the transmission into reverse.
A number of events then occurred near-simultaneously:
One of the ICE agents who approached her placed his hands on the driver's door handle and open window of Good's vehicle.
Becca attempted to open the front passenger door.
Good drove a few feet in reverse.
Ross walked to the front-left of Good's vehicle.
The agent at the driver's door reached through the open window, and Becca shouted, "Drive, baby, drive!"
Killing of Renee Good - Wikipedia
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Even though she had said she instigated it and admitted it was her fault. You still persist with saying when did she do it.
I just want to check what you are saying. We know that the agent who shot Renee pulled up next to her car, got out, and started circling it and videoing her. Presumably, you believe, at this stage, he was going to let Renee leave. But then the wife came back and started teasing him. Are you saying that this action made him change his mind and decide to have Renee arrested instead of letting her leave?
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Objective?
