Inset gas fire in a cast iron surround - standard size?

[rarara]

Am looking to replace our existing gas fire with something a bit more efficient, so am thinking of an HE model, but have a couple of questions....

1) If I buy a cast iron surround (either new or antique) will they all be suitable, providing I get a correctly sized fire? Or are there only a handful of HE fires which require a specific surround?

2) Do all HE models have a glass front or are there any more open/natural looking?

thanks!

 

[FiremanT]

No they won't. For a HE fire, you need a flat surface around a specific size opening. Even a new model cast won't be any good unless specifically designed.
Generally for a modern (inc. HE) inset fire (as opposed to "inset tray") the cast is designed with a 22" x 16" opening. The fire is fitted to the flat surface and then the "canopy" section is fitted over the fire:

PAGE 52
http://www.charltonandjenrick.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/1248-PAR-Gas-Fire-Bro-2015Upd_LR.pdf

 

[ree]

I hold my hands up to your superior knowledge of modern fires - however, using the Paragon One fire you linked to as an example, how come it cant be used with a CI surround?
It doesn't require a canopy, and many CI surrounds have fire openings that could easily accept 600Ht x 500W dimensions and more.

I'm probably missing something but, some time ago, i've installed various fires in Victorian surrounds. But that was then.

 

[longdogs]

I have a Victorian cast iron fire and am currently having a gas fire basket made by a local firm (no as expensive as you might imagine) with fake coals and a remote.

 

[rarara]

I have a Victorian cast iron fire and am currently having a gas fire basket made by a local firm (no as expensive as you might imagine) with fake coals and a remote.

a gas fire basket doesn't sound like a high efficiency model (ie glass fronted) which is what I am looking for. i am fed up with most of the heat going up the chimney when on, or a big open hole allowing cold air in when it is off.

in a previous property we fitted a wall mounted gas fire which wasn't glass fronted, but also wasn't draughty - i seem to remember it needed a firebox(?) sourced seperately and the chimney needed lining. what sort would that have been? could that give a compromise between less draughty but also open-fronted? again though, needs to be suitable for a large probaby CI fireplace

 

[longdogs]

Yes, it's more of a focal point to be honest. Would prefer a glass fronted fire but it would mean removing all the original detail from the fire.

 

[FiremanT]

I hold my hands up to your superior knowledge of modern fires - however, using the Paragon One fire you linked to as an example, how come it cant be used with a CI surround?
It doesn't require a canopy, and many CI surrounds have fire openings that could easily accept 600Ht x 500W dimensions and more.

I'm probably missing something but, some time ago, i've installed various fires in Victorian surrounds. But that was then.

Here is a selection of Vic Casts. As far as I can see, not one is able to accept a "proper" fire.
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=V...8&bih=529#tbm=isch&q=VICTORIAN+CAST+FIREPLACE
Except for the last one on the 2nd row, which is, I think, similar to the Paragon idea. In fact, looking at the shape of the coals,I think it probably is a rebadged Paragon/Matchless
That is not to say there is none available, just that I cannot recall seeing one.

 

[ree]

FWIW: I googled: "cast iron fire surrounds"

I'm wasn't trying to make a point but was simply curious given that back in the day i installed a number of pretty wide opening Victorian surrounds.

 

[FiremanT]

Ree, the opening is not the only issue. A flat area surrounding the opening is what is rarely availble. We know the opening needs to be a specific size, so "pretty wide" does not cut it.
I suspect you are not getting the nature of the Ops question. He wants an "EFFICIENT" fire."Back in the day" there were not HE inset fires available. Are you refferring to inset tray fires?.

OP: The simple answer is that you will struggle. Most fires need a 16" x 22" opening with little tolerance. Try and find a CIS BEFORE you invest in the fire.

 

[ree]

I'm referring to the linked appliance you posted - it requires 600mm h x 500mm w. No canopy.

The "pretty wide" were in the region of 900mm x 900mm - these surrounds are still available.

 

[FiremanT]

Ree, I'm sorry, but I don't understand what you are saying. No HE, or modern inset fire requires a canopy. In this context a canopy is cast into the fireplace, which means you generally don't have a big enough flat area around the opening.

If you mean the fire needs a flat area of approx 500 x 600, then yes that is correct, but it also needs the right size opening. And you mean that some older fires had outer dimensions of 900 x 900? It is true that fires tend to be smaller now.

But a Victorian Cast AFAIA, always has a canopy.

My main point the OP is that he is unlikely to find a VC with all the required dimensions. If I have misunderstood you,perhaps you could find an post an image?

Mind, RaRa seems to have got bored

My main point to the OP is that in th main Vic Casts are notsuitable for moern fires.

 

[ree]

I referred in my first post to "fire openings" not to total surround dimensions.
Iv'e already referred you to a google page with a choice of V. fire surrounds with large fire openings? google: "cast iron surrounds" for more of the same.

When i say: "No canopy" I'm confirming that the appliance that you linked to doesn't have a canopy.

The opening of 900mm x 900mm is the opening in the surround, which is adequate to accept the 600mm x 500mm Paragon One HE fire.

You say: "a VC with all the required dimensions" - what further required dimensions would be needed if you already have an opening of 900mm x 900mm?

 

[FiremanT]

Ree, I cannot see any link from you.
An openmng of 900 x 800 isof nouse to a modern inset fire, the opening needs to be about 550mm x 400mm. The 600 x 500 you kee[ quotong is, I thonk, the outer fire dimensions.

I think you are a little confused over the type of fire to which we are reffering. A basket or inset tray will fit into a big opening, not an HE

 

[ree]

This will be the third time that i've asked you to google: "cast iron fire surrounds" ?

If you also google: "cast iron fire places" you will see something thats often confused with a fire surround.

I have consistently referred to the Paragon One appliance that you provided the link for.

I quote from the Mfr's required fitting dimensions for the Paragon appliance: "a flat face 600mm H x 500mm W must be provided around the fireplace for the fixing of the appliance" - thats the outer dimensions of the fire.

The Mfr's require that the appliance be fitted into a " 551mm H x 400mm W hole in the wall" - thats the dimensions of the actual appliance.

The cast iron fire surrounds that i've referred you to have openings between the legs of 900mm, and an opening height of 900mm to the header.

The Mfr's outer dim. of 600mm x 500mm quoted above will fit quite easily into the cast iron surround opening.

 

[FiremanT]

OK, Ree, I take your point. But an "opening", in the trade, is a reference to the fireplace opening,ie.the 22 x 16 norm. Your continual reference to the opening was confusing. It would have been useful if you had actually provided the link. Fireplace reps efer to your "opening as the "goalpost opening", or "leg to leg opening" but that is not terribly technical, or, prabably,universal.
The OP, who has bug%erred off, did say a CI surround, but I assumed he was referring to a Vic Cast. Probably my bad, but, ultimately, a stupid question from the OP. If he can't see that a surround is suitable for pretty much any fire, subject to physical size, he is really going to struggle when it comes to selecting a back panel.
I still suspect he was referring to an ornate Vic Cast.