Insufficient overload protection on circuit

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We have an EICR done a few weeks back.

One of the items marked as a C2 on the report was "Insufficient overload protection" on the oven/hob circuit in the kitchen.

I'm wondering what sort of thing would cause that?

For context, we have a regular integrated oven/grill, and a separate glass hob. Should it have a 40amp RCD, or should it be 32amp?
 
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What size is the cable on the oven/ hob circuit ?
RCD doesn't provide overload protection , MCB or RCBO or a fuse would .
 
What size is the cable on the oven/ hob circuit ?
RCD doesn't provide overload protection , MCB or RCBO or a fuse would .

I don't know for certain (I'm not an electrician), but I believe it's 10mm. The cable is stranded rather than a solid cable, which I think might indicate 10mm.

It has one of these in the consumer unit;

Which then has one of these on the same side of the consumer unit
 
Is the earth conductor of the cable solid ,or is that also stranded ?
 
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There is a problem with ovens, in that most cooker supply points over the years are 30/32 amp, but some have been fitting 40 and 45 amp. So the 4 mm² flex is good for 32 amp, but not 40 and 45 amp, and even the internal wires in the oven may well not stand 40 amp.

However an EICR is as the name says all about the installation, and the electrical system, lack of smoke alarms, faulty ovens may need correcting, but are not part of the EICR, so even if the oven can't take 45 amp as long as the feed cable is large enough i.e. 10 mm² with installation method 100 is rated 45 amp, then it passes even when the oven is not really designed for that supply.

I have looked at oven specs, and not seen many which give maximum size of overload protection, clearly since for domestic there is a limit of 125 amp, but nothing to say it should have a 16 amp supply, even when most would work A1 with a 16 amp supply.

So we are often told it has electronics in it, but often only the clock, so a type AC RCD will be OK, although most induction hobs need at least a type A. As yet not seen anyone fail an EICR on wrong type of RCD, the report does not say it complies with BS 7671, that was code 4 but removed, now it says potentially dangerous, how daft, 230 volt is always potentially dangerous, but most consider if OK when BS 7671 came out (1992) then if nothing has changed, still OK now, although of course things have changed, don't remember EV's with in car chargers in 1992, the charger was static.

Insufficient seems an odd term, either it has overload protection or it doesn't. I would guess he is looking at the cable and installation method, and some where on the run the cable is too small, we have things like installation method 100, 101, 102, and 103 so the same 4 mm² cable is rated 27, 22, and 17.5 amp but years ago we surfaced mounted cable so could have been 37 amp.

To be frank unless he says cable insulation method has be altered, the cable is too small, or some other down to earth reason why it has failed, and a suggestion like MCB should be changed to 32 amp, he has not really done his job, the report should be in layman's terms.

With the new info just posted a 63 amp RCD is ample if the DNO fuse is 60 amp, and a 40 amp type B is too big for 6 mm² installation method 100, the problem for most people is even if easy to swap for a 32 amp, the landlord laws in England say the person doing the work and raising the minor works must be skilled.
 
If I look at batt cables 624B Twin & Earth LSZH Cable 300/500V BS7211 it still uses TABLE 4D5 - 70 °C thermoplastic insulated and sheathed flat cable with protective conductor even when 90 °C cable.

This chart gives the current rating. and this chart gives physical size so Nominal overall diameter mm of a 6 mm² cable is 6.5 x 13.5 mm, but other makes may be different. It does however give you some hope at least of working out what cable you have.
 
One of the items marked as a C2 on the report was "Insufficient overload protection" on the oven/hob circuit in the kitchen. .... I'm wondering what sort of thing would cause that?
As has been said/implied, it presumably means that the protection (MCB, RCBO or fuse) in your CU has too high a rating for the cable used for the circuit - so, as has also been implied, the crucial question is the size of the cable.

Cooker circuits usually have 32A MCBs/RCBOs, which is fine if the cable is 6mm² or greater (possibly 4mm², depending on how it is installed. I very much doubt that you ned a 40A breaker.

Kind Regards, John
 
6mm² on a 40A MCB is possible, depends on how the cable is installed.
What has it got on the EICR for installation method?
 
6mm² on a 40A MCB is possible, depends on how the cable is installed.
What has it got on the EICR for installation method?
Type of wiring says 'A'.
I couldn't find anything relating to installation method
 
Last edited:
What has it got on the EICR for installation method?
Where would that be recorded (and, indeed, how would an EICR inspector know the installation method unless the cable were surface mounted? )? ...

1662406949293.png


Kind Regards, John
 
To be frank unless he says cable insulation method has be altered, the cable is too small, or some other down to earth reason why it has failed, and a suggestion like MCB should be changed to 32 amp, he has not really done his job, the report should be in layman's terms.
Unfortunately that's not correct. You are not permitted to suggest remedial actions as part of the Report - the Report must instead simply be a factual statement as to what the identified issues are.

Suggested remedial actions would need to be relegated to a cover letter or something - they cannot be within the Report.
 
I also see it says a max disconnection time of 5, where as all of the other circuits are 0.4
That is incorrect. It should be 0.4 seconds disconnection time - not 5 seconds. That's not been correct since the 16th Edition was withdrawn.
 
5s disconnection is permitted for a 40A circuit supplying a cooker if there is no socket outlet, although in reality it will be the same disconnection time as the others.

Type A is just the type of cable, flat PVC insulated and sheathed in this case, which is the most common type used for domestic wiring.

Without the installation method, there is no way to determine if the cable will be subject to overload.
6mm² can be rated up to 47A if surface clipped or in masonry. Substantially less if installed through insulation or other arduous environments.


Where would that be recorded (and, indeed, how would an EICR inspector know the installation method unless the cable were surface mounted? )? ...
circuitdetails.png

Some EICR documents are better than others.

As for how - reference to the original installation certificate and other previous documentation if available.
In the absence of that it's either a case of looking, or it's a limitation, which may lead to other problems.
 

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