Insurance - Compensation of car's true value

[david and julie]

Contrary to popular belief Insurance Companies must love the no win-no fee culture.

Like any business they work on margins, for our purpose lets presume 10%. Your insurance is £500 their take is £50, you have a claim and it goes up to £800, their take is £80.

SS. I take your point, but if the insurers had been fairer over the years the no-win,no-fee, solicitors wouldn't be needed. If they are going to offer derisory ammounts, when your not in the wrong, they deserve all they get.

Katie's dad is obviously of an age group that are not into the claim culture, so they will take advantage if they can. She should make sure she does her best to get him as much as possible. Even then he would prefer to be back where he was.

 

[Katie_Jennings]

David and Julie : We will try to establish all of the points that you raise at the earliest opportunity. We do have some photographs and I will try to get him to send them to me – he is not on-line, worse luck and is actually away for a few days. We do know a couple of really good bodyshops in his area actually, providing good workmanship and honest with it. Perhaps we can approach tem in due course.

Securespark : Thanks hugely for those links, they could be really useful. Yes, I will try to get a piccy in the post, may take a little while though for reasons described above. To clarify my earlier point, originally the insurers offered £125 and then following our letter of response plus accompanying details of other sales (via the web) they upped the price to £450. Even though this falls way below what we believe to be reasonable I find it absolutely galling that the insurers seem to take the public for fools who will take the first price offered – I cannot envisage anything more bogus than this outfit. Yes, the £1,200 - £2,500 disparity I imagine is reflected by various modifications that have been made to the sale vehicle; there was also an engine rebuild and a newly resprayed vehicle.

The car is an MG Maestro Efi 1987(D). As I said dad has owned it since it was six months old. It has been garaged in all of that time and prior to the accident was in immaculate condition. Some of the prices in the range above do include the Turbo model (which is more powerful still) but these do not necessarily exceed those of the non-turbo models. I will try to obtain the URL’s of the cars that we have collected.

Waran. Yes, I agree, but the insurers position is that they can write-off a vehicle if the repair cost exceeds 60% of its value. They claim that the repair costs are £2,300. Yes, we have legal cover but the solicitors have been used to recover the uninsured losses – excess, sundry costs etc - not thrash out a deal to determine the written-off car’s true value. The point you make re “purchase an equivalent replacement” is what we are currently trying to establish hence acquiring details of other transactions etc. Dealers are not relevant in this issue as the car is seventeen years old. Whiplash did affect the two rear passengers and this is currently being dealt with by the solicitors.

One other thing does puzzle us. The confrontation over the car’s value has been going on for the last six weeks or so with the company that insures my dad. Even prior to receiving written confirmation (obtained in the last few days) that the liability was with the other party, why is it that our insurers were so keen for us to accept a cheque (re their derisory valuation) before legal liability was established? Surely they should wait until liability is confirmed and at such time make a stand on our behalf to ensure that we obtain as fair a deal as possible from the other parties insurers? Or is it simply a case of insurance companies, far from representing their clients, actually work in concert to minimize their own costs irrespective of customer care? Any views?

Thanks again for all your help.

 

[david and julie]

Katie..Admiral told me all insurance companies are obliged to keep each others costs to an minimum. I presume the customer doesn't even come into it. (Some people would call this a cartel).

I hope your dad is OK, it must be very upsetting and stressful for him.

 

[Katie_Jennings]

David and Julie: From what I have viewed in other fora and read in various articles this would seem to be entirely the case. This is why I made the post originally; given that there is very effectively a “cartel” in operation, will the Financial Ombudsman be best suited to act on our behalf? Apart from the alleged administrative inadequacies should we really place our trust in such a body. Would it not be better to use the small claims court?

My dad is OK, thanks. But he is determined to pursue this matter to its end and I will back him up every inch.

 

[securespark]

The car is an MG Maestro Efi 1987(D).

Lovely.

Had a D plate Maestro myself, albeit a VDP. Good motor, did well over 100K with very little trouble, but died of that well-known ARG trait, Ferrous Oxide!!

Everything else was raring to go, but the bodywork gave up....very sad.

Have a great fondness for all the ARG cars I have owned so far in my life (5), and hope very much that the EFi can regain its former glory.

 

[Tommy J]

If you don't accept the offer then they will try to settle it by offering more. All you need to do is simply ask for more, provide a lot of RELEVANT information which backs up your findings. I.E. Glass' Guide.

If your not happy then look in your handbook at the complaint proceedure, follow it and if your complaint does not get resolved then go to the Ombudsman. If you don't follow the complaints proceedure the Ombudsman will not help you.

When proceeding through the complaint, if your not happy mention the word OMBUDSMAN to the insurer as when they get involved they automatically charge (can't remember) about £250.

But do bear in mind that an insurance company are only there to put you in the position you were before the accident. So there argument is that your father can replace his car with exactly the same model and mileage for £xxxx, or in this case £xxx.

Sorry, Hope this helps.

Tommy J

 

[L_Plate]

All you need to do is simply ask for more, provide a lot of RELEVANT information which backs up your findings. I.E. Glass' Guide.

Most of this sounds like good advice TJ, but Katie did point out in an earlier post that the Glass' Guide only goes back to around 1996. Remember her Dad's car is almost a decade older than this. Do you know of a more relevant publication that could be used in this instance?

 

[pipme]

I am wondering if one can have an agreed valuation at the outset of insurance ? Bound to be expensive .. checks and balances regards ongoing condition etc etc ... Ins co. are understandably careful with their dosh.
I am sure you will never get what you think it is worth, unless you pay through the nose for defined values or whatever .. then I do not know about this ... Bit of a problem really .. think I would be taking advice before buying a classic ... could save a lot of hassle !!
P

 

[AdamW]

A mate of mine has a 1997 Mini Cooper S insured with an agreed value. I don't think they came and valued it, but the reason he got such a policy is that his was in very good condition and also had some extra bits on it. Standard Coopers of that age cost a bit less than it would cost to replace his, like for like. Hence agreed value.

 

[david and julie]

I think the whole area of values is a bit of a scam in the insurance companies favour.

We all know new cars have terrible depreciation. If we take say a new car at £10000, as an example, first year insurance say £500. Second year insurance goes up say 10% (for easy figures) to £550, but the car drops 20% (£8000). Third year insurance goes up 10% to £605, car value drops 20% ( £6400) Fourth year insurance is £665. Car value (£5120).

We are now in the situation where a new car cost 5% of its value to insure, whereas at 4 years old it is costing a hell of a lot more, even though on claiming you get less.

I know they ask for values but they just don't seem to relate to premium, if your car value goes down , why should the premium go up?

This situation carries on until a car is worthless, yet still the premiums, percentage wise, keep going up in proportion to a cars value.

 

[pipme]

I think the whole area of values is a bit of a scam in the insurance companies favour.

We all know new cars have terrible depreciation. If we take say a new car at £10000, as an example, first year insurance say £500. Second year insurance goes up say 10% (for easy figures) to £550, but the car drops 20% (£8000). Third year insurance goes up 10% to £605, car value drops 20% ( £6400) Fourth year insurance is £665. Car value (£5120).

We are now in the situation where a new car cost 5% of its value to insure, whereas at 4 years old it is costing a hell of a lot more, even though on claiming you get less.

I know they ask for values but they just don't seem to relate to premium, if your car value goes down , why should the premium go up?

This situation carries on until a car is worthless, yet still the premiums, percentage wise, keep going up in proportion to a cars value.

Slightly off pitch .. and I suppose someone will call it cr-p But I use the AA for car, house and contents .. Thus gaining 30% off the house ins, I did find car Ins £20 cheaper elsewhere but not the house Ins... total this yr ... 1.6 Litre car full NCB .. just over £400 (£500 with AA relay cover)!! down 14% on year. Which pleases me no end.... Very helpful over the phone etc ... Haven't used yet tho' !!

P

 

[AdamW]

Haven't used yet tho' !!

P

Insurance: the only thing you ever buy, fully intent on never using. And it's expensive!

I am shopping for insurance at the moment. I currently have 2 years NCB and my premium cost me £345 per year. As of the end of this month I will have 3 years NCB and my premium (from the same insurer) is over £400. Even with shopping around I have only got it down to £385.

Why is it, my NCB has increased by a full 50%, yet my insurance has gone up by more than 10%? I know why, the insurance industry needs to make a profit, but why have claims gone up so significantly that premiums have to as well? Is this due to false claims, and people sueing others after accidents?

Or is it because with all these superbly-engineered modern cars people have become complacent in their driving and end up being caught out when ABS doesn't save them? And then modern cars are too expensive to fix if the bags go off.

 

[Tommy J]

Going back to the valuation comment, I have only ever come across "Agreed Valuations" on classic car policies.

I'm not doubting that the Mini Cooper hasn't got an agree valuation but if it is on a normal private car policy let's hope nothing happens to it, because they WILL try to give him the Market value.

(sorry I didn't read the previous post re age of KJ's dad's car) I'm not sure how far Parkers Guide goes back. You could also try the autotrader web site, or the theAA.com

Tommy J

 

[pipme]

Gosh .. must be age Adam ... my £400 odds, is all three insurances added together

Rates are being pushed up by 4WD's ???

 

[2scoops0406]

Gosh .. must be age Adam ... my £400 odds, is all three insurances added together

Rates are being pushed up by 4WD's ???

Why for ? Wasn't insured for putting wrong fuel in