Internal rose door handles

[danoid]

Yes , the change to thru blots could be pinching the catch as you previously had nothing near the catches with previous handles .

Kind of makes sense but when I put the through bolts in without tightening them it’s fine.

I’ve got 10 more to do next weekend, so I’ll make a video if it does it on them which I suspect it will.

Is there anything I can do to prevent from happening though?

Latches and handles both smith & Locke, latches have the holes already for through bolts so should be good I would have thought

 

[foxhole]

The spindle hole thru the door can vary in size/shape to suit the handle.

 

[danoid]

I’ve replaced some more and more drama.

I know what the issue is regarding the handles going right, the latches I replaced last year don’t sit bang on in the middle of the spindle hole.

The new handles I have on the inside there’s a circular bit of metal, this chews the door when spindle isn’t bang on in the middle, so little bit of filing on the door and it works perfectly.

What is more drama though is the handle (Locke and key) through bolts, don’t line up with the latch (Locke and key) cutouts for the bolt through, so one of the through bolts has to go in a bit sideways and is a pig.

I’ve just changed the internal garage door and the latch for that is a different make and lines up perfectly.

I knew Locke & Key is a cheap screwfix own brand, but you’d think they could at the very least make their own products compatible!!

 

[Deleted member 174758]

The new handles I have on the inside there’s a circular bit of metal, this chews the door when spindle isn’t bang on in the middle, so little bit of filing on the door and it works perfectly.

When doing lock mortises/latch drillings it is essential to get the mortise/drilling straight, and ideally very slightly oversize. Similarly it is essential to get the door drilling centres bang on - for which purpose a jig is the way to go - and to leave enough space to allow for bumps and humps on the lock/latch body, circlips , etc - again by drilling a slight amount oversize.

As an aside, these mechanisms with sleeve nuts have made it all but impossible to make door adjustments for tight doors by planing a bevel on the leading edges (as people of my generation were taught to do in college). The leading edge of the door now has to remain square (are your doors actually square?) if you are to avoid problems. If the door is tight you now have to take any easing off the hinge edge, square, and rerout the hinge recesses (because doing it by hand often won't get you there accuately, especislly with radius corner hinges). Not a complaint - just a comment

What is more drama though is the handle (Locke and key) through bolts, don’t line up with the latch (Locke and key) cutouts for the bolt through, so one of the through bolts has to go in a bit sideways and is a pig.

That is just perverse. The last two or three jobs I've been on we used commercial quality door ironmongery from firms like Arrone or NewStar. They aren't the best (but they aren't rubbish, either), but I find that the "drillings" (cut-outs) for the sleeve bolts on commercial ironmongery is almost always oval with, and not tight at all, which gives the installer a bit of leeway on the handles. When I install stuff I tend to drill my holes for the sleeve bolts a couple of millimetres oversize, as well, and I eyeball the handles from the end of the door to ensure that they are visually square to the door and don't end up one high and one low, which can also force you to install the sleeve bolts at an angle - and if you have to install the sleeve bolts at an angle then that is just wrong. Do these lock/nandle sets assemble "dty" out of the door? If not then you either need to change the locks or the handles as it just stores up problems for the future.

I also tend to pop a few countersunk screws through the base of the handle if they are supplied - but you'd be surprised at how many times the screws are maybe 0.5mm too long and can pinch the lock body, making the action "tight". A quick bit of work with a file to take the tip off generally sorts this out, but just in case I always have an extra supply of shorter screws (12, 15 and 16mm)

I knew Locke & Key is a cheap screwfix own brand, but you’d think they could at the very least make their own products compatible!!

I'm sure that as a "lockie" @JohnD will be able to quote the standard, but there is a recognised CE or BS standard for these, and if the supplier is even half decent they will work

 

[danoid]

When doing lock mortises/latch drillings it is essential to get the mortise/drilling straight, and ideally very slightly oversize. Similarly it is essential to get the door drilling centres bang on - for which purpose a jig is the way to go - and to leave enough space to allow for bumps and humps on the lock/latch body, circlips , etc - again by drilling a slight amount oversize.

As an aside, these mechanisms with sleeve nuts have made it all but impossible to make door adjustments for tight doors by planing a bevel on the leading edges (as people of my generation were taught to do in college). The leading edge of the door now has to remain square (are your doors actually square?) if you are to avoid problems. If the door is tight you now have to take any easing off the hinge edge, square, and rerout the hinge recesses (because doing it by hand often won't get you there accuately, especislly with radius corner hinges). Not a complaint - just a comment


That is just perverse. The last two or three jobs I've been on we used commercial quality door ironmongery from firms like Arrone or NewStar. They aren't the best (but they aren't rubbish, either), but I find that the "drillings" (cut-outs) for the sleeve bolts on commercial ironmongery is almost always oval with, and not tight at all, which gives the installer a bit of leeway on the handles. When I install stuff I tend to drill my holes for the sleeve bolts a couple of millimetres oversize, as well, and I eyeball the handles from the end of the door to ensure that they are visually square to the door and don't end up one high and one low, which can also force you to install the sleeve bolts at an angle - and if you have to install the sleeve bolts at an angle then that is just wrong. Do these lock/nandle sets assemble "dty" out of the door? If not then you either need to change the locks or the handles as it just stores up problems for the future.

I also tend to pop a few countersunk screws through the base of the handle if they are supplied - but you'd be surprised at how many times the screws are maybe 0.5mm too long and can pinch the lock body, making the action "tight". A quick bit of work with a file to take the tip off generally sorts this out, but just in case I always have an extra supply of shorter screws (12, 15 and 16mm)


I'm sure that as a "lockie" @JohnD will be able to quote the standard, but there is a recognised CE or BS standard for these, and if the supplier is even half decent they will work

All I done was replace the latches in a 20 year old door with new smith and Locke latches which have the holes for the through bolts, then bought new lever on rose handles.

The doors themselves close fine, it’s just the spindle hole for some reason doesn’t line up with the holes, the “new” latches worked fine with my old handles, just having issues with my new ones.

I’ve already replaced 6 handles and another 6 to go upstairs but I’m not going to be changing the handles half way in, so I’ll just have carry on with the stupid smith and Locke latches.

When I have the handle and latch out, the throughbolt holes don’t line up, not an issue at the back of the latch as it’s like an open semi circle, it’s the one here circled in red which is the issue with my smith and Locke handles

 

[Deleted member 174758]

If you have dry assembled one of these and it doesn't go together, then you could either take the latches back to the supplier and request replacements, or you could find a better quality latch. Keeping on going with defective carp seems an exercise in futility. Personally, I'd do the just bin the carp and buy some better stuff. I'm afraid to say that B&Q own brand stuff isn't always that good - so I avoid buying ironmongery and electrical stuff from them given the choice