Is a Safety Relief Valve Needed?

[mottsy]

Hi,

Please help me. I've just had some work done by a plumber who should have arrived on a horse wearing a stetson!

He replaced the hot water cylinder and fitted 10 thermostatic Radiator Valves.

I noticed that at the bottom of the old cylinder when it was removed was a brass valve with a blue plastic cap on it. I asked him if it was a Safety Relief Valve as I noticed that one was not fitted on the new cylinder. He assured me it was an "AUTOMATIC BLEED VALVE!" and was not needed. Later when my wife questioned him about it he said it was in fact a Safety Relief Valve but these were not needed anymore.

As I have now had to redo various bits myself, I am now worrying if this is correct or it it is dangerous?
If it makes any difference it is an indirect system, and I think it is gravity fed. (There is a pump for the radiators but when the heating is switched off and the hot water on, the upstairs radiators hot. Hence the TRV's.

If anyone can let me know I would be very grateful.

Many thanks

Mottsy.

 

[EliteHeat]

If it's an unvented system then there is no need, or purpose for a safety relief valve. It should though have a drain-off fitted.

Technically, under part "L" of building regulations, you should have been converted to a fully pumped system, either "S" or "Y" plan. The cost of doing this is usually prohibitive though.

So, in what way was this man a cowboy and what bits of his work did you have to redo yourself? If you are capable and competent why did you not do the whole job yourself?

 

[Soggy_weetabix]

Upstairs radiators getting hot when the h/water is switched on occurs in fully pumps systems aswell.

If your pump does not spin on h/water demand and you cant select c/heating only on your timer, your are on gravity hot water.

Im wondering im its some kind of thermostatic control for the h/water.
Was is Clytrol they called them? Its been years since ive seen one.

David

 

[mottsy]

Unfortunately I'm not capable. I have a disability to my right wrist. Whilst I can do a little work right handed the pain soon builds and prevents me from continuing. Also some of the bits that needed doing were only accessible with my right hand, (cupboards, doors etc to get around.)

The reasons I think this man was a cowboy are,
Originally it was supposed to be two days work. Eventually six days later he finished. (No heating for two very cold weeks. He did Mon tues weds, with the weekend off in between.)
He claimed problems caused by imperial pipework that were awkward to get fittings for. (I don't know if this is true but apparently it was 1 1/4" from the boiler to the cylinder then 1" and 1/2" to contend with after that. I know he needed some 28mm fittings that he claimed were hard to source.) {The house was built in 1955 and the central heating added well after that date.}

He had to be called back on the seventh day when a damp patch appeared on the living room wall, caused by a solder non equal "t" joint leaking that he had disturbed.
After trying to fix the leak several times and failing he declared, "I don't know what else to do!" The original was the imperial equivalent of 28mm reducing to 22mm with 15mm coming out the side. Luckily I had found that B and Q had some "difficult to source" 28mm to 22mm reducers and suggested replacing the "T" with a 28 - 22 reducer and fitting another T further along to connect to the third pipe. This worked fine.

He scorched the skirting board, apparently the heat mats are useless so he just burns everything with his blow torch.

I have had to redo some of the TRV connections that were leaking.

He charged £400 for a hot water cylinder, 10 TRV's and an immersion heater. When I queried the cost of the parts he said that they were "decent ones and not the rubbish you get in screwfix." (I have since found out that all the parts were identical makes and models to those sold in screwfix at a price of £225.

The wife had to tell him how to run some pipework in under the bedroom floor.

The total cost was over £1300, (although he did additionally swap two separate radiators in the bedroom for a single one. They were side by side on the same wall so an easy job I would have thought.)

I still have to add the inhibitor myself. (He wanted everything left for a week to make sure there were no more leaks before adding the expensive inhibitor. Scalex at £3.39 from screwfix.) I will be getting some fernox MB1.

Lastly he is a distant relative who said he would it cheap as I was family.

Now if I am being harsh please let me know as I will soon be letting him know what I think of him.


By the way thanks for the help.

Mottsy

 

[mottsy]

Oh and please can you let me know how to tell if my system is vented ao unvented?

Thanks

Mottsy.

 

[EliteHeat]

Oh, I see. Bad luck - you have my commiserations.

Your cylinder will be vented (at that price) plus screwfix don't sell unvented.

P.S. Let him know what most people here will think of him as well.

 

[Nige F]

Upstairs radiators getting hot when the h/water is switched on occurs in fully pumps systems aswell.



I`m wondering if it`s some kind of thermostatic control for the h/water.
Was is Clytrol they called them? Its been years since ive seen one.

David

Yep. That`s a Cyltrol not a safety valve .Upstairs rads hot=needs an anti gravity(circulation)valve..but the TRV`s are no bad thing. Relatives who needs `em

 

[ChrisR]

This look familiar?

See http://62.189.186.228/lwwcm/resources/file/eb0bb60240f39ea/D33_6 SuperCyltrol.pdf
Yes it used to control your HW temperature!

Unless he fitted a lot you haven't mentioned, your HW will now only be controlled by the temp of the boiler, so expect to be scalded.

They're about £70 or so I think. Not up to modern standards but better than nothing and cheaper than a new set of controls etc for your CH.

1 1/4" etc to metric adapters are exensive but easily available from a good plumbers merchant, though they can be a few miles away. (Or one's lockup garage!)

 

[mottsy]

ChrisR

Yep, that appears to be it.

Will it be OK without one, (The wife likes the water hot!) or should I fit one?)

Thanks again for all your help people. I was paniking that the cylinder would go bang!

Mottsy

(Oh yes, He also fitted a TRV in the same room where the thermostat is. I see from other threads that this should not happen!)

 

[corgi del]

Re: Rads getting hot when boiler firing for DHW.

It is not normal for this to happen. If it does it usually means that the return for the upstairs rads is stabbed in to the return to the boiler in the wrong place( usually to close to return from cylinder).

It could also be a bypass plumbed incorrectly (very common).

Try and establish the return path from rads to boiler. If it is wrong, replumb. Do not be tempted to fit a NRV on the return

This info is assumming the system is fully pumped, apparently it is not.

 

[Nige F]

Er, Gravity hot water to cylinder= cyltrol...Pumped to rads only= anti grav. valve in rad flow to upstairs....as done by old farts in the1970`s when they were young bucks