is it two problems?

[Softus]

Agile, you're wrong on quite a few points here.

I don't believe that raden's use of the term "fitter" was meant to be denigrating, and I for one didn't take it that way. The general public commonly use the same term as raden, without any disrespect intended. I suggest that you're being a little over-sensitive on the use of language in this context. You have the perfect to insist that the correct terms are used, but not the right to assume that insult was the goal.

You claim that it's "quite clear" that raden has "little respect for anyone apart from himself". Personally I don't read that into his posts, so it's not as clear as you're asserting.

Regarding prosecution, a manslaughter charge would never be heard in the County Court, because it is a criminal offence. You also seem a little obsessed with this capital letter thing

Baxi/Potterton do have incentive to improve reliability of parts, because they're in direct competition with companies whose appliances are more reliable. The natural, albeit possibly incorrect, conclusion is that they are unable or unwilling to increase reliability, either of which reasons is sufficient justification to be publicly disparaging about the company.

 

[Softus]

quite a lot of information on Sun Apr 23 2006 at 12:57 am

ChrisR, I completely agree with (and admire from afar) what you've posted (so I didn't want to quote it all here), but with one small exception.

You say that the person who replaces a fuse on a PCB has to be CORGI registered. I don't understand why you believe this, because my interpretation of the relevant legislation is the person has only to be competent.

 

[Softus]

That burn definitely does happen on recon boards

no it doesn't eejit - it happens because if potterton's poor quality flow soldering

There's no call for this raden. I can respect your point of view but there's a limit.

Firstly, the fault can happen on recon boards, regardless of the cause. Chris didn't say that the cause of it was something changed or fixed by the reconditioner.

Secondly, even if ChrisR had been wrong on that point, which he wasn't, because you misinterpreted it, then it doesn't make him an eejit (sic.). He's one of the most patient, polite, experienced and knowledgable posters on the forum, and your insult, should you not retract it, will earn you all the flack that you might get.

 

[oilman]

eejit!!!???? did someone call?

 

[Agile]

Softus said""You claim that it's "quite clear" that raden has "little respect for anyone apart from himself". Personally I don't read that into his posts, so it's not as clear as you're asserting.""

Well you have seen how abusive he has been to me and he has now called Chris an "eejit" !!!

Now its out in the open that Geoff ( Raden ) runs CET which repairs PCBs and fans, its clear to you all that he has a vested interest and hates CORGI registered people because they follow the instructions ( and common sense ) not to use repaired parts.

Now I have just one question for Geoff and I look forward to his answer:-

If your CET repaired PCBs are so good then why is it that Potterton will not endorse them and indeed say that they should not be used?

Tony

 

[Softus]

Well you have seen how abusive he has been to me and he has now called Chris an "eejit" !!!

You have a point. He managed to get that one in while I was writing my response to you.

Now its out in the open that George ( Raden ) runs CET which repairs PCBs and fans, its clear to you all that he has a vested interest and hates CORGI registered people because they follow the instructions ( and common sense ) not to use repaired parts.

I don't know whether or not he hates RGIs, but I agree that his judgment is biased and that he cannot be trusted.

You're right, I was wrong, and it appears that raden's true colours are emerging.

 

[ChrisR]

Who is George -I thought it was Geoff?

exception.

You say that the person who replaces a fuse on a PCB has to be CORGI registered. I don't understand why you believe this, because my interpretation of the relevant legislation is the person has only to be competent.

I thought that
if a person is "employed" to do "work" on a "gas appliance", he had to be corgi regd.
I would have thought that changing a fuse was covered by "work" which I remember is defined, so I'll have a look later. The line has to be drawn somewhere - let's see, replacing a self tapping screw in the case is probably "work"; what about changing a push-on knob on a Profile front panel thermostat knob?
How many angels coould stand on the top of a Suprima without overloading the mountings, and would they have to be Corgi regd to give it their blessing...?

 

[Softus]

Who is George -I thought it was Geoff?

Dunno to be honest, although "Guff" would seem more appropriate at the moment!

I thought that if a person is "employed" to do "work" on a "gas appliance", he had to be corgi regd.

Not quite. I know it's been quoted elsewhere, but for this purpose of this posting I think the following is justified:

[code:1]Qualification and supervision
3. - (1) No person shall carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or gas storage vessel unless he is competent to do so.

(2) The employer of any person carrying out such work for that employer, every other employer and self-employed person who has control to any extent of such work and every employer and self-employed person who has required such work to be carried out at any place of work under his control shall ensure that paragraph (1) above is complied with in relation to such work.

(3) Without prejudice to the generality of paragraphs (1) and (2) above and subject to paragraph (4) below, no employer shall allow any of his employees to carry out any work in relation to a gas fitting or service pipework and no self-employed person shall carry out any such work, unless the employer or self-employed person, as the case may be, is a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of this paragraph.[/code:1]
My point being that the word "appliance" is not only absent, but signficant by its absence.

I would have thought that changing a fuse was covered by "work" which I remember is defined, so I'll have a look later. The line has to be drawn somewhere...

I agree.

...let's see, replacing a self tapping screw in the case is probably "work"; what about changing a push-on knob on a Profile front panel thermostat knob?
How many angels coould stand on the top of a Suprima without overloading the mountings, and would they have to be Corgi regd to give it their blessing...?

 

[ChrisR]

Yehbut yehbut yehbut, "fitting" includes "appliances".

Sotus wrote:
kevplumb:
ODPM wrote:
"gas fittings" means gas pipework, valves (other than emergency controls), regulators and meters, and fittings, apparatus and appliances designed for use by consumers of gas for heating, lighting, cooking or other purposes for which gas can be used (other than the purpose of an industrial process carried out on industrial premises)


I note that back a page you appeared to say that that's what you'd thought before it was quoted, but I'd thought that you'd thought that it wasn't, up to that time?

 

[Softus]

Oh, blimey, I've made a rod for my own back. I assure you that I'm being genuine with my opinions, so let me attempt to explain...

Yehbut yehbut yehbut, "fitting" includes "appliances".

I recognise this assertion, and a while back, on this topic, I wrote this:

that relates only to gas fittings, as stated in the first paragraph.

... where "that" refers to the section of the GSIUR that Kev had quoted, and that I've re-quoted today.

Then I wrote this:

GSIUR 1998 states that the person working on the appliance must be "competent"...

and in doing so I contradicted myself. What an immense fool. The second statement was fatally wrong, in that it should have said:

GSIUR 1998 states that the person working on the gas parts of the appliance must be "competent"...

...then it would have been consistent with (a) what's in my head and (b) the rest of what I've written.

kevplumb:
ODPM wrote:
"gas fittings" means gas pipework, valves (other than emergency controls), regulators and meters, and fittings, apparatus and appliances designed for use by consumers of gas for heating, lighting, cooking or other purposes for which gas can be used (other than the purpose of an industrial process carried out on industrial premises)


I note that back a page you appeared to say that that's what you'd thought before it was quoted, but I'd thought that you'd thought that it wasn't, up to that time?

Your second belief is correct - I'd thought that it wasn't, up to that time (two pages back) before it had been quoted. A page back, when I said "I think I already knew how to interpret them", I meant that the interpretation that I already had was an opinion that hadn't been changed by the interpretation embodied in the ODPM guidance document.

In a nutshell, I believe that ODPM guidance, because of its interpretation, to be wrong. However, I'm standing at the ready to override my own interpretation if I find that a court has found that an "appliance" is a "fitting".

 

[ChrisR]

Ah. So if the ODPM text is unreliable, that opens up a can of worms doesn't it.
If gas fitting means only bits with gas going through, what about air supplies, and the rest - including overheat circuits.

I have some difficulty accepting that it (odpm text) can be wrong, since it is pretty unambiguous. Whether it's law or not is another matter perhaps.


Just in case our reader has lost the thread, will to read, live etc, I'm not saying that I feel nobody should actually "touch" a boiler unless Corgi regd. If the current Gas Safety Review comes up with that and law is made clear that it be so, and measures are introduce to enforce compliance, would I change my attitude? Probably not!

 

[Agile]

Geoff ( who in heat of the typing I mistakenly called George ) has not answered my question yet. Perhaps he takes his day off from CET on a Sunday or perhaps he has some problem in deciding what to say?

Perhaps someone should ask Mr Prescott if a gas appliance is a fitting? If he replies before hitting them then we might be interested in the answer. Until then I will interpret the ODPM instruction as it is written.

In the meantime, I will repeat my question to Geoff:-

"""If your CET repaired PCBs are so good then why is it that Potterton will not approve them and say that they can be used? """

 

[Softus]

Perhaps someone should ask Mr Prescott if a gas appliance is a fitting?

This is one of three questions (to my knowledge) to which answers from the ODPM are awaited (by me and another member). The ODPM is not prompt or reliable with its replies.

Until then I will interpret the ODPM instruction as it is written.

I respect you for doing so, since it means that you'd made your mind up on the available information and reached a conclusion. My underlying point on the subject is that the law is open to interpretation, and that there is more than one reasonable meaning to the GSIUR 1998.

 

[geoff@cetltd]

In the meantime, I will repeat my question to Geoff:-

"""If your CET repaired PCBs are so good then why is it that Potterton will not approve them and say that they can be used? """

Potterton have a very lucrative spares business - they don't want people moving in on it. If a pcb needs a resistor or a capacitor changing, why should the board not be repaired, the same for a fan where the bearings have gone. Much better than throwing away the whole item for a simple repair

Actually both Potterton and Glowworm tech have referred people to me

and again - I apologise for goint a bit over the top - I got wound up

 

[Softus]

Potterton have a very lucrative spares business - they don't want people moving in on it.
.
.
.
Actually both Potterton and Glowworm tech have referred people to me