Is it worth putting up scaffolding for a few minor repairs?

[daisy12345]

Unless CDM applies, in which case they do.

Found this (https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg411.pdf):

Domestic clients: If you are having work done on your own home, or the home of a family member, and it is not in connection with a business, you will be a domestic client. The only responsibility a domestic client has under CDM 2015 is to appoint a principal designer and a principal contractor when there is more than one contractor. However, if you do not do this, (as is common practice) your duties as a domestic client are automatically transferred to the contractor or principal contractor. If you already have a relationship with your designer before the work starts, the designer can take on your duties, provided there is a written agreement between you and the designer to do so.

 

[^woody^]

Found this (https://www.hse.gov.uk/pubns/indg411.pdf):

Domestic clients: If you are having work done on your own home, or the home of a family member, and it is not in connection with a business, you will be a domestic client. The only responsibility a domestic client has under CDM 2015 is to appoint a principal designer and a principal contractor when there is more than one contractor. However, if you do not do this, (as is common practice) your duties as a domestic client are automatically transferred to the contractor or principal contractor. If you already have a relationship with your designer before the work starts, the designer can take on your duties, provided there is a written agreement between you and the designer to do so.

Yes it seems a simplistic statement from the HSE, but there is an onus on the client to ensure that CDM is followed.

I've not heard of any domestic claims yet, and I doubt the HSE will enforce a bit of roofing work, but the regulations related to domestic clients are sufficiently vague to mean that they could be sufficiently twisted by a smart lawyer in a negligence claim, or if there is an incident and the HSE investigate, they will look to see if CDM is followed.

What that little snippet does not say is that if you don't appoint a principal contractor, the first contractor on site will become the "principal contractor". So in your case is that the scaffolder? Have a look at what a principle contractor is expected to do and tell me if a scaffolder is going to do that - he's not even there after a few hours. Then think if you as a client, can automatically pass your duties on to the scaffolder. Likewise for any building work involving multiple trades (almost all of which are self employed contractors).

And ignorance is no defence, apparently.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

What that little snippet does not say is that if you don't appoint a principal contractor, the first contractor on site will become the "principal contractor". So in your case is that the scaffolder? Have a look at what a principle contractor is expected to do and tell me if a scaffolder is going to do that - he's not even there after a few hours. Then think if you as a client, can automatically pass your duties on to the scaffolder. Likewise for any building work involving multiple trades (almost all of which are self employed contractors).

Here, in the case of a roofer with his ladder, we are just discussing one contractor taking on the job of a quick repair on a roof. Providing the homeowner has no input to the job, apart from paying the roofer, he cannot possibly have a claim made against him should that roofer fall and injure him or herself.

The first stage of tackling any job for each one of us doing any work, is a Risk Assessment, even before the RA even had a name and a form, we all consciously or unconscously did it and worked out ways to minimise or eliminate the risks almost completely, for me and anyone working for me/around me. It would be completely unreasonable to pass the risk and any resultant claim for a mistake and injury, onto the unskilled client.

 

[johnny2007]

It's always someone else's fault.

 

[^woody^]

Here, in the case of a roofer with his ladder, we are just discussing one contractor taking on the job of a quick repair on a roof. Providing the homeowner has no input to the job, apart from paying the roofer, he cannot possibly have a claim made against him should that roofer fall and injure him or herself.

Well the thread is about whether its worth putting scaffold up for some roof work. So that's an important decision and one with the potential repercussions if a ladder is deemed OK. Typically, ladders are for access and very time limited work when one hand can stay on the ladder.

The owner does have a duty to ensure that anyone they employ to work on their property is suitable and able to do the work. They can't just pick some random Joe and let them loose without any responsibility or liability for what happens afterwards. No, the homeowner needs to do some reasonable checks to make sure that the person can do the work and do it safely - even if the person is willing to take risks the home owner has a duty to prevent that.

So if they get three quotes, two expensive because they say scaffold is needed, then if they go for the bargain chancer who wants to work off a ladder, then if there is a subsequent accident then there is a high probability that the homeowner bears some responsibility for allowing the the work to go ahead in an unsafe manner.

And remember, claims can be brought up to six years after the event. There is a contractual and client/contractor arrangement and that involves responsibilities and duties.

 

[sxturbo]

i paid for scaffoling on the gable wall of my house, nice narrow access, paid £350 for it to be put up, was up for 6 weeks in the end, the pointer done his bit, then i managed to repair the roof arieal once he'd gone, my only regret is that i dilly dallied to much on putting an extractor fan in the bathroom and the scaffolding went by the time i made my mind up.

i digress, why not do the work yourself and just pay for the scaffolding

 

[sxturbo]

Well the thread is about whether its worth putting scaffold up for some roof work. So that's an important decision and one with the potential repercussions if a ladder is deemed OK. Typically, ladders are for access and very time limited work when one hand can stay on the ladder.

The owner does have a duty to ensure that anyone they employ to work on their property is suitable and able to do the work. They can't just pick some random Joe and let them loose without any responsibility or liability for what happens afterwards. No, the homeowner needs to do some reasonable checks to make sure that the person can do the work and do it safely - even if the person is willing to take risks the home owner has a duty to prevent that.

So if they get three quotes, two expensive because they say scaffold is needed, then if they go for the bargain chancer who wants to work off a ladder, then if there is a subsequent accident then there is a high probability that the homeowner bears some responsibility for allowing the the work to go ahead in an unsafe manner.

And remember, claims can be brought up to six years after the event. There is a contractual and client/contractor arrangement and that involves responsibilities and duties.

thats what the liability insurance is for that everyone removes from their insurance policy..

 

[^woody^]

thats what the liability insurance is for that everyone removes from their insurance policy..

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Out of curiosity more than anything, a wider angle shot showing the entire (front?) aspect would be good, to see the slope and general layout.

 

[daisy12345]

Out of curiosity more than anything, a wider angle shot showing the entire (front?) aspect would be good, to see the slope and general layout.

Here it is

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Here it is

Small pic however from what I can see the main roofline doesn't seem excessively high and there appears to be a flat section of ground immediately in front i.e. beside the steps. However I also see the main roofline is set back slightly due to an (extension?) on the front. So this could make access slightly more difficult?

 

[daisy12345]

Small pic however from what I can see the main roofline doesn't seem excessively high and there appears to be a flat section of ground immediately in front i.e. beside the steps. However I also see the main roofline is set back slightly due to an (extension?) on the front. So this could make access slightly more difficult?

Your observation is quite right, though I don't think there's a front extension so the main roofline could just be the design of the houses around this area. So far half of the people who came to have a look thought it needs scaffolding and the other half thought ladders are enough.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Your observation is quite right, though I don't think there's a front extension so the main roofline could just be the design of the houses around this area. So far half of the people who came to have a look thought it needs scaffolding and the other half thought ladders are enough.

Ah right, with the different brickwork it had the look of being added on. Regardless, that's irrelevant in the context of your question

As the consumer, I wouldn't be getting involved in 'what access is best and/or most suited for this job.' You're not diy'ing it so it's not important to you, so get your quotes from reputable companies, select based on whatever criteria are important to you and let them be concerned with 'how are we going to get up there?' You're paying for their all round expertise, not just the actual job they're doing for you. Of course when it comes to scaffolding, you might need to be involved in terms of answering 'are you happy for us to put scaffolding up in front of your house for x days?' however whether or not that approach is needed and/or required isn't your concern.

Not that companies would do this anyway, but you wouldn't want to push someone to use a ladder to save £££ only for them to then injure themselves or worse.

Forget ladders. Forget scaffolding. Get the quotes and pick your preferred company