Is there any rules or laws to say there must be electric in an abode?

[JohnW2]

Perhaps guys working on a railway is not classed as habitation anyway.

I would think that the definition of habitable and habitation probably varies according to context.

I would imagine, for example, that there are probably regulations/laws relating to minimum standards./facilities for properties which are rented out as dwellings ('for living in') - and that might conceivably apply in the case of eric's 'workers', even if they are living 'rent-free'..

However, if one moves away from renting, I'm not convinced that (other perhaps in fairly extreme circumstances) anyone (or any 'body', or even 'the law') other than the owner of a building can dictate whether people are 'allowed' to 'live in' the building, no matter what facilities it has oor doesn't have. Mind you, I have to wonder whether things like 'fire regulations' might perhaps come into play?

Beach huts are perhaps an example, many/most of which have no electricity (or any other 'services'). The majority are owned by LAs (who charge 'Business Rates' for them!) and leased to users and, being the owners, the LAs often (usually, I think) have conditions in their Leases which prohibit 'overnight use'. However, a minority of such huts are owned (freehold) by the users and I suspect (but do not know for sure) that, in such a situation, they, as owners, can 'permit' themselves or others to 'live in' the hut. However, I'm not sure about any of that.

As with so many things, I suspect that if eric's workers were to 'live in' his hut/whatever, no-one would do anything to stop them (ieven if they became aware that it was happening). However, as also has been said, insurers may have something to say about this.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Mottie]

who charge 'Business Rates' for them!

If they are charged business rates the owner should automatically receive small business rates relief and pay nothing. Many air b&b or rental properties elect for business rates rather than domestic rates for that reason.

Business rates relief

Check if you can get a reduction in your business rates bill with business rates relief and find out how to apply.

www.gov.uk

 

[JohnW2]

If they are charged business rates the owner should automatically receive small business rates relief and pay nothing.

Indeed, provided that one does not pay Business Rates for any other properties in the country.

Kind Regards, John

 

[Mottie]

Indeed, provided that one does not pay Business Rates for any other properties in the country.

Kind Regards, John

Depends on the rateable value of the other properties.

 

[JohnW2]

Depends on the rateable value of the other properties.

That's certainly what I would have expected (and still think is probably true). However, the first LA website I picked at random (click here) said this:

15. Non Domestic National Rates (Business Rates)
Beach huts are eligible for business rates as they are classed as non domestic properties, however if you do not pay business rates in your name anywhere else in England then you can apply for Small Business rates relief.

... and then goes on to say .......

..... If you do pay business rates elsewhere then you will be liable for the below fees.

However, as above, unless the system is very silly/unfair, I suspect they've probably got it a bit wrong!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Mottie]

That's certainly what I would have expected (and still think is probably true). However, the first LA website I picked at random (click here) said this:

... and then goes on to say .......

However, as above, unless the system is very silly/unfair, I suspect they've probably got it a bit wrong!

Kind Regards, John

I looked here. https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-business-rate-relief/small-business-rate-relief

 

[JohnW2]

I looked here. https://www.gov.uk/apply-for-business-rate-relief/small-business-rate-relief

Yes, and that makes more sense - although I have no idea what the rateable values of beach huts would be, so can't really work out how it might apply in practice.

However, if, as I rather suspect, the rateable value of beach huts never gets anywhere near to the thresholds beyond which small business relief would cease to be available, then it would seem a bit daft of them to bother to make beach huts subject to Business Rates in the first place - particularly given that one would expect that the vast majority of people who use such huts are not paying any other Business Rates, anywhere!

Kind Regards, John

 

[Mottie]

Yes, and that makes more sense - although I have no idea what the rateable values of beach huts would be, so can't really work out how it might apply in practice.

However, if, as I rather suspect, the rateable value of beach huts never gets anywhere near to the thresholds beyond which small business relief would cease to be available, then it would seem a bit daft of them to bother to make beach huts subject to Business Rates in the first place - particularly given that one would expect that the vast majority of people who use such huts are not paying any other Business Rates, anywhere!

Kind Regards, John

"How much small business rate relief you get depends on your property’s rateable value.
You will not pay business rates on a property with a rateable value of £12,000 or less, if that’s the only property your business uses".

My workshop comes in at under this RV. Each year I get a business rates bill showing the amount payable. It then says 100% small business rates relief and deducts that amount giving me a balance payable of £0.00. In the pandemic, every business that was getting SBRR got an automatic payment of £10K. Beach Huts and a few other things were specifically excluded.

 

[JohnW2]

"How much small business rate relief you get depends on your property’s rateable value.
You will not pay business rates on a property with a rateable value of £12,000 or less, if that’s the only property your business uses".

Indeed - that's what is says.

As I said, I have no idea of what the rateable values of beach huts are but if, as I suspect, they are never anywhere near £12k, it seems daft of them to have (I think only fairly recently) made them liable for Business Rates if, in practice, virtually no-one will have to pay them - so just a lot of admin costs for almost no return!.

Kind Regards, John

 

[StephenStephen]

I would have thought that small battery and solar would be safer and easier than oil for lighting?

 

[Mottie]

it seems daft of them to have (I think only fairly recently) made them liable for Business Rates if, in practice, virtually no-one will have to pay them - so just a lot of admin costs for almost no return!.

I’m pretty sure I read somewhere Local authorities have to pay half of all business rates collected to central government and that the LA can claim half of the discounted rates back from the government so it would make sense to ensure that beach huts are rated accordingly.

 

[JohnW2]

I’m pretty sure I read somewhere Local authorities have to pay half of all business rates collected to central government and that the LA can claim half of the discounted rates back from the government so it would make sense to ensure that beach huts are rated accordingly.

If you're saying that central government will pay the LA half of what the hut user would have to pay were it not for the fact that they didn't have to pay it, then that would, indeed, be an incentive for the LA - but I would be a little surprised that central government would have 'bought into' that.

Kind Regards, John

 

[ericmark]

Whole question is now immaterial as the guys had left, so no longer matters.

 

[SUNRAY]

I would have thought that small battery and solar would be safer and easier than oil for lighting?

And greener at point of use.

 

[ericmark]

I would have thought that small battery and solar would be safer and easier than oil for lighting?

I was rather disappointed with solar panel on my caravan, idea was to keep battery topped up over the winter, so quite a small panel, as only drain was radio permanent line. Covid came and so unable to visit caravan and once we could, battery totally discharged, also caravan wrecked due to water ingress.

Battery was retrieved and charged at home, and it was alternating between off and 0.1 amp on the Smart charger, once it had recharged, so it seems in winter we were getting less than 0.1 amp.

I used calor gas for lighting at one point, and it was nice and bright, but the main point was it also warmed the caravan, and the oil lamp was the same, however I did google the lamp I could not believe the price, at £50 yes a battery lamp would be better. I remember one friend as a lad had an only carbide lamp on his bike, when we stopped we would all warm our hands from his lamp. Remember the butterfly nut at top for adjusting the drip, OK today my e-bike has got a headlamp to match it in brightness, but the old bike lamps were a bit useless with electric power.

As said the two lads have now left, so no longer need to find them some where to sleep,

Huts tend to be covered by trees, so solar panels would not have worked.