Isolate radiator pipe to replace speedfit elbow joint

[BloodAndBandages]

I need to possibly replace an elbow joint under the floor as it is leaking quite badly. This is due to a cowboy heating engineer install less than a year ago - I'd reported the elbow as dripping previously but it had later stopped - not sure if the engineer just tightened it, but I need to replace it as I don't want to go under the floor again if it has completely failed. Going under the floor and accessing the pipe is a bit of a mission.

The leak was causing boiler pressure to drop from 1.5 bar to 0 within an hour - less if the heating was on - it was dribbling out at quite a rate. Even though it was leaking fast, I assume the system is far from empty and expect water to gush out if I remove the elbow...

I've closed the radiator valves but I don't think that will prevent water pouring out.

I'd rather avoid draining the whole system and refilling. Will it be possible to freeze the pipe to isolate the elbow?

Before I found the leak I repressurised the boiler several times, so each time it would have leaked a few litres of water, so I expect I have to top up the inhibitor at least.

(Not sure if I should need to mop up the large puddle of water under the floor or if I should just let it dry by itself.)

Anyway, do I need to isolate the pipe or will I get away with it?

 

[oldbuffer]

1. If installed less than a year ago I'd expect the installer to correct the fault, including lifting / making good the floor, free of charge.
2. What pipes (copper, plastic)?
3. What are you going to replace the elbow with? Another plastic or soldered copper?
4. If replacing with plastic elbow on plastic pipe make sure you have the same make as the pipes and the correct inserts. With the pressure at the boiler on zero, make sure all radiator bleed valves and any auto air vents are shut, and the valves on the affected radiator shut. You could then risk doing it "live" but fast.
5. If replacing with plastic elbow on copper pipe, as 4. above, but no insert needed for copper.
6. For either 4. or 5. freezing would take most the risk out of it.
7. If replacing with soldered copper on copper pipe, I'd freeze it, but at least 2 feet away from the joint, and be ready with a push fit stop end.
8. For any of the above, a drain down is the safest way without a lot of experience.

 

[BloodAndBandages]

1. The cowboy installer has been back numerous times but is no longer anywhere nearby. Nice guy - bad plumber! He's offered fo rsomeone to come and have a look but I'd rather not deal with the hassle of numerous visits and continued disruption whilst we have no heating or hot water.
2. 15mm plastic barrier pipe. Not sure what tghe exact type of fittings they are but if I'm prepared with a replacement push-fit elbow and 2 inserts then I hope that is all I need - I believe the fittings will fit any type of pipe as long as it's for 15mm pipe.
3. Relacing it with a new pushfit elbow and 2 inserts. Might take a pipe cutter as well in case pipe has been badly cut.
4. All bleed valves are shut - it's a combi boiler so I'm not aware of any other vents other than a tap to empty the whole system. I guess shutting off valves to all rads will help as well. I have a towel rail radiator into which I can put the inhibitor - I guess I could leave that one open.
5. This bit is plastic so N/A
6. Noted!
7. N/A
8. Noted, although I'm reasonably capable! Famous last words! Worst case scenario is the whole system empties into the underfloor void - there are quite a few litres down there already! How much does an entire system hold? There are 10 rads in the house.

 

[Madrab]

1. fair enough
2. Nope, each pipe maker has its own inserts and fittings, to ensure compatibility then you need to use the same fittings. Pipe is usually marked with maker info.
3. depends why the original fitting was leaking, if the pipe was marked then you need to cut back to nice clean pipe, if it was the seal in the fitting that was compromised then you may get away with just the new fitting
4. Shut all rads down at both valves, this will minimise water loss. The boiler should be isolated too to minimise system fill and bleeding requirements but using the boiler valves to do this has its own risk where the valves invariably leak when older.
5. Yup, don't forget to refresh the system inhibitor

 

[BloodAndBandages]

2. It's Speedfit - I asked the guy, so I will go down there with a spare elbow and inserts in case I need to replace the whole thing - for the sake of a few quid I'd rather avoid more than one trip under the floor!
4. All valves to boiler should be brand new as it's all a new system...

If I shut off all valves to boiler and rads (presume I don't need to shut off mains water supply if feed loop on boiler is not open, which it isn't) then I assume there will be minimal additional spillage... I think I'll risk it without attempting to freeze the pipe. The other end of the pipe goes to the closed-off radiator anyway, so spillage will only be from one end. Have to replace the inhibitor anyway.

 

[BloodAndBandages]

Successfully repaired the heating - once all the radiators were isolated there wasn't much water to collect when I removed the leaking elbow. It was leaking because the insert was only half in, plus the middle washer on it was broken. Amateur stuff really.

In the course of this repair and insulating the pipes (something else the engineer was trying to cut corners on) I've established that the Magnaclean filter that we paid for to be installed is non-existent.

So the engineer is going to have to arrange for that to be installed. He can't do it himself as he's moved to the other end of the country. I have the threat of reporting him to Gas Safe - not sure if they have any teeth as it's not directly gas.

 

[Madrab]

I have the threat of reporting him to Gas Safe - not sure if they have any teeth as it's not directly gas.

Nope, you don't have the cover of Gas Safe in this instance but if it was included in the Quote/Invoice then you have your consumer rights, which do have teeth.

 

[BloodAndBandages]

Yes, it's on the quote and invoice. I suspect he was hoping I wouldn't notice.