Kitchen cabinets level but face not flush/straight

[Bdar492]

Hi everyone, looking for a bit a help here. I have 3 base kitchen cabinets l'm installing into my kitchen.


Cabinet number 1 (far left) installed first (screwed to wall), checked all level with a laser level and also checked with a manual laser level front to back.


Fastened the next cabinet, using a laser level it's all level and screwed together (and wall) and the faces are flush. Looks good so far. Now third cabinet (not yet screwed in to the other two cabinets or wall) and whilst it is level with the run of cabinets checked using a laser and bubble level, it is not flush on the face and widens up at the top. If I clamp it together as a test, it is not level. Not sure where I'm going wrong and could use a steer on how I can trouble shoot and fix it. Noticed that whilst first the cabinets are level at the top, the side panels are (whilst still within the bubble), ever so slightly off. 3rd cabinet side panels are straight so perhaps this has accumulated into the 3rd cabinet not being able to be flush with the other two cabinets.

 

[big-all]

you should never screw them to the wall or level in isolation
if you are using a baton it must be dead level and flat padded out from the wall
screw them together then level them together on the floor as a group then back to the wall with low spots padded out to keep straight

 

[Bdar492]

Thanks I will try that approach. I did align them without fixing anything as a dry run and checking levelling across all 3 and it was fine until I tried I screwed the side panels flush with each other

 

[Bdar492]

So I took the cabinets off the wall and they are all screwed together. Now what I’m finding is that the cabinets on either side are ‘bowing’ upwards. So that whilst I can get the middle cabinet level with my laser level, I’m observing that either side cannot follow the same line. I took off all the legs on the outer 2 cabinets (but leaving the legs in the middle) to see what would happen and I am seeing that they seem to unlevel on both sides - both doing exactly the same thing in bowing upwards.

This means that both ends are level but the middle would be out by a few mm. Am I being too precious wanting all cabinets to follow the laser line exactly? ‘Overall’ end to end it can be straight but the middle would be a few mm lower than either side.

Any help to troubleshoot would be appreciated! I’m not a carpenter but thought I was reasonably capable at DIY (about to redact that statement after this task!)

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Have you checked the cabinets are square?

 

[Bdar492]

Have you checked the cabinets are square?

I measured the face of each diagonally and found only the cabinet on the right is out by 2-3mm. Is that what you mean by checking square? Could fix it with shims if it wasn’t square - really don’t want to start taking the cabinet apart!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Yes, you can check with a suitable T square, if they're not all square then they'll never line up.

 

[lostinthelight]

If you don't have a square to hand a shelf placed on edge vertically on the cabinet floor should give you a good indication of squareness.

 

[big-all]

Thinking slightly outside the box, you haven't left anything on the joining faces like screw caps??
where the cabinets purchased from the same source at the same time and from the same manufacturer??

but as said above squareness

 

[Mike13]

I ended up using two beams across the floor for front and back "feet" for the cabinets. levelled them after screwing the beams to the joists with recessed screws, then the cabinets are forced to be level.

 

[big-all]

I ended up using two beams across the floor for front and back "feet" for the cabinets. levelled them after screwing the beams to the joists with recessed screws, then the cabinets are forced to be level.

"forced" in general is not a good idea as it means something is being pulled out off shape else where and can just amplify the problem elsewhere
much better to get it correct fully freely and by gravity

 

[chirpychippy]

If the cabinets are from Howdens, Benchmarx or Magnet they will not be square.

Lay the cabinets on there fronts on cardboard and measure the diaganols corner of gable to corner of gable.

There should be a little L shaped bracket in the service gap holding the back panel to the gable end. If the cabinets are out of square by more than 1mm then remove brackets, square cabinet and refit brackets with the unit square.

The Gables aren't manufactured square either. Even if you get the top front and back of the units perfectly in line the fronts edges will be out between 1 and 3mm.

It is important the the top and bottom of the cabinets at the front align perfectly and the front of the carcasses align perfectly and is plumb "otherwise you'll have a nightmare getting the doors to align" at this point clamp and screw the units together, you will then notice the back of the cabinets don't level perfectly, it doesn't matter, the variant is normally 1-2mm.

At this point you can fix the units to the wall, you will notice small gaps, walls are never flat, don't close the gaps.

 

[big-all]

If the cabinets are from Howdens, Benchmarx or Magnet they will not be square.

Lay the cabinets on there fronts on cardboard and measure the diaganols corner of gable to corner of gable.

There should be a little L shaped bracket in the service gap holding the back panel to the gable end. If the cabinets are out of square by more than 1mm then remove brackets, square cabinet and refit brackets with the unit square.

The Gables aren't manufactured square either. Even if you get the top front and back of the units perfectly in line the fronts edges will be out between 1 and 3mm.

It is important the the top and bottom of the cabinets at the front align perfectly and the front of the carcasses align perfectly and is plumb "otherwise you'll have a nightmare getting the doors to align" at this point clamp and screw the units together, you will then notice the back of the cabinets don't level perfectly, it doesn't matter, the variant is normally 1-2mm.

At this point you can fix the units to the wall, you will notice small gaps, walls are never flat, don't close the gaps.

are you saying they are built with a say 3mm narrower back on purpose ?? to allow for deviation or am i misunderstanding what you are saying ??
to me a box should be an exact cuboid fully parallel and level

 

[johnny2007]

Lower the legs at the 2 ends by the 2mm out of square and don't tighten the last 2 screws to the wall.
The worktop weight will square the cabinets, then you can tighten the last 2 fixing points to the wall, where the cabinets are higher now.
Anyhow, I have seen kitchens banged up in a day with 4-5mm deflection from level and once the worktop is in, all works out fine.

 

[Mike13]

"forced" in general is not a good idea as it means something is being pulled out off shape else where and can just amplify the problem elsewhere
much better to get it correct fully freely and by gravity

What I mean is that the bases are all then guaranteed to be level, then get the fronts square to each other and screw together. It is too easy to get separate feet not quite square, when it is one long run for the front and one long run for the back then they must be right. but going on Johnny2007's description some of the carcass manufacturers seem a bit sloppy.