Kitchen downlights have no earth - double insulated or not?

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Hello all

Council is here for the last day of full re-wire but there is one small problem with my kitchen eyeball downlights.

There are five downlights (roughly 20 years old) in the kitchen which I'm told are not earthed and therefore will have to be disconnected, pendant or strip light put up for testing as per council regs and then if I choose I could have them re-connect new downlights as private job. Anyone know how much this should cost please (new cable already in place)? I'm thinking I could fit the new downlights myself, that is if they leave the cables in place? Is it likely they would leave cables in place should I advise I do not want them re-connect right away or would they remove them?

Also I've just been to shop that stock same lights that I thought would have the third earth wire but it does not, only has two wires the same as my current ones. Via google learnt that if lights are doubled insulated then no earth is required so now I'm thinking perhaps my current ones are double insulated, but is there any way to find out for sure?

On the new ones in the shop had backwards D symbol like this D--E 0.5m. What does that mean please?

Anything else in general I should be checking/asking while the electricians are still here?

Thanks again.

P.S Found PDF for new downlights (mine will be the dl1003) which confirms no earth needed. As these are identical to my current ones I suspect these too are double insulated but need to be sure.

http://www.mygreenlighting.co.uk/dow...structions.pdf

Picture of how downlights are currently wired
 
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The current electricians installed these, but as above I think just a temp measure rather than finished job just to give me light for now until then are disconnected.

Main questions are.

1. How much roughly should re-connecting the five lights cost?

2. Is there any way I can know for sure if my current downlights are double insulated or not?

Just spoke to electrician and showed him the above manual stating no earth required due to being double insulated, however he is adamant that earth is a must to be 100% safe?! This is the only model I've been able to find that is the correct size for hole, all others are too small. Surely double insulated downlights wouldn't be sold unless 100% safe?
 
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The cost of reconnecting can vary, the cost in London will be different and variable's will need to be know on-site, it's a piece of string.
Double insulated fittings will have a symbol displayed on them which looks a two squares.
 
Possibly the electricians are concerned about the absence of a protective conductor to the switches as well as the light fittings. That could be dangerous if someone fits switches with metal front plates, and a fault develops.
 
Possibly the electricians are concerned about the absence of a protective conductor to the switches as well as the light fittings. That could be dangerous if someone fits switches with metal front plates, and a fault develops.
I would agree with you on that but...
Council is here for the last day of full re-wire but there is one small problem with my kitchen eyeball downlights.
A full rewire must surely ensure that all cpc's are in place.
More likely that the council's standards dictate that proper lighting should be fitted to their property and this is the easiest way for the fitters to test up to the ''ceiling rose - that was there when I left it ;) '' and leave it up to the occupier to decide whether he makes any changes.
 
Just spoke to electrician and showed him the above manual stating no earth required due to being double insulated, however he is adamant that earth is a must to be 100% safe?!
Ye gods where do they find these people.

Not only is he wrong, he is dangerously and illegally wrong.

Connecting an earth to a double insulated light can actually be positively unsafe.
 
Connecting an earth to a double insulated light can actually be positively unsafe.

Not sure how it can be 'postivly unsafe' to earth metalwork on a light which happens to be a class 2 fitting and not an ECP, unneccessary, yes, outside the makers intention, yup... but positivly unsafe I'm struggling with...

On a side note, I've also come across a few fittings marked as class 2 which I'd have doubts about actually being as such, especially when installed with standard loop in wiring, rather than accessed on a R&D bench with no wiring attached by someone who doesn't install them
 
Not sure how it can be 'postivly unsafe' to earth metalwork on a light which happens to be a class 2 fitting and not an ECP, unneccessary, yes, outside the makers intention, yup... but positivly unsafe I'm struggling with...

If metal work on anything is connected to the CPC inside premises with equip-potential bonding then that metal work is safe to touch. So double insulated or not doesn't ( under common sense ) matter.

If anything it would reduce the risk of harm or fire if the double insulation failed for any reason by possibly activating an RCD or MCB.

However connect the metal of any item to the CPC and then take that item outside the equi-potential area of that CPC and the metal does present a hazard when the CPC is not at true ground potentia. There is a more serious hazard if the item is taken in another equi-potential area served by a different CPC that has a different potential to the CPC connected to the item. If the metal work makes contact with the other CPC then heavy currents could flow and as they are only in the CPC there will be no way MCD or RCDs could react to it. Now that is dodgy.
 
It is a common misconception that class 2 fittings do not contain exposed metallic parts, and if they do, they must not be earthed.
Could you please clarify - that sentence is rather ambiguous. Are you saying that if they contain exposed metalic parts, then those parts must not be earthed - or that it is a misconception that they must not be earthed?

Thanks.

Kind Regards, John.
 
It is a common misconception that class 2 fittings do not contain exposed metallic parts, and if they do, they must not be earthed.


It is a common misconception that

[1] class 2 fittings do not contain exposed metallic parts.

and

[2] if they do, they must not be earthed

"
Which can mean that "they must not be earthed" is also a mis-conception
 

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