Landing light - removing borrowed neutral

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What're the acceptable & best ways to remove a borrowed neutral to an upstairs landing light that is two way switched with the live feed coming from the downstairs lighting circuit and only the strappers running between floors?

Currently, earth and neutral are both borrowed from the upstairs circuit.

Would you run a T&E from the downstairs circuit to the upstairs ceiling rose with the Live core connected to the downstairs earth (since no live feed is wanted in the rose)? or some other way?

Thanks
 
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Normally a landing light is fed from 1st floor lighting cct

Switched pair come from light fitting to upstairs switch and and 3core & E to downstairs switch.

Doesn't sound like you've got a borrowed neutral more like the wrong live feed.

AFAIK strappers are used for interconnecting live feed on multi gang switches
 
DESL said:
Doesn't sound like you've got a borrowed neutral more like the wrong live feed.
:LOL: :LOL: EDIT:sorry it makes sense now

Strappers are the pair of wires running between 2 way switches that are normally in the L1/L2 terminals
 
Running a 3 core from landing switch to hall switch would be best, and changing the single core from landing switch to landing pendent with a twin and earth if it is not already.

You could do it your way, running a twin and earth from downstairs circuit to up, but it is against the grain. If you did it this way, keep the red as a constant live, and terminate it in the loop terminal on it's own.

Easiest way to sort this would be to put both circuits on the same breaker, preferably joining the two circuits before they hit the board.

I think DESL is getting confused with what you mean - he has the standard 'modern' way in his mind, and can't picture the old school 'conduit' method ;)
 
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Lectrician said:
Running a 3 core from landing switch to hall switch would be best, and changing the single core from landing switch to landing pendent with a twin and earth if it is not already.

You could do it your way, running a twin and earth from downstairs circuit to up, but it is against the grain. If you did it this way, keep the red as a constant live, and terminate it in the loop terminal on it's own.

Easiest way to sort this would be to put both circuits on the same breaker, preferably joining the two circuits before they hit the board.

I think DESL is getting confused with what you mean - he has the standard 'modern' way in his mind, and can't picture the old school 'conduit' method ;)

Yes, I agree ....

We're talking 1930's singles in conduit routing here, although the cables are not the originals and insulation tests OK. The drops to the switches are all in 13mm ID steel conduit with singles and there is no practical way to get a T+E, let alone a 3-core down there as the conduit is full and the runs are not straight. - it would never get around the corners, even if there was space. The run from loft to the landing/bedroom switches has 2x 90 degree bends in it.

The lower end of the conduit to downstairs switches is buried deep in plaster. and has the live feed to the downstairs switches, 2-way strappers for landing light, 2-way strappers for hall light and switched live for living room in it.

Without major chiselling, I think the only practical solution is my way, but make the single red live into the loop terminal as you suggest.

Thanks,
 
my setup sounds exactly the same as yours (i keap meaning to sort it out :oops: ). i was most annoyed as the rest of the electrics look pretty good, and the hall was the only place that didnt need decorating when i moved in! (and to make it right and conventional i would need to chase the switch). i like your method and that would be easy to do in my house, but still the easiest way is to connect both circuits to one breaker as reccomended above! -that what i plan on doing.

Lectrician says that they shoul idealy join before hitting the board. -why is this?
 
sm1thson said:
Lectrician says that they shoul idealy join before hitting the board. -why is this?

To make it obvious it is a single circuit - lowers the chances of someone seeing two lives in an MCB at splitting them ;)
 
Lectrician said:
sm1thson said:
Lectrician says that they shoul idealy join before hitting the board. -why is this?

To make it obvious it is a single circuit - lowers the chances of someone seeing two lives in an MCB at splitting them ;)

And in fact that is how mine is currently wired. However, I am going to have to replace the live feed into the loft as it is damaged (not immediately dangerously), and I was considering splitting into two circuits at that time for convenience, initially fed from the same fuse (sic), which would then result in the borrowed neutral when the CU is changed and separate breakers were used.

I guess I'll stick with a single lighting circuit for the whole house, as that seems simplest and the lighting load is not an issue.

As you may have guessed by now, the CU is still BS3036 rewireables and it's one of the old brown Wylex's with the wooden pattress - I can't get a 16mm earth into it even if I fork the conductor! Still, I have a good TN-S earth (Ze 0.09) and I've done the main and sup. bonding.

I need to sort out the ground floor ring main and the feed to the garage (I have another post about that in the forum) before the CU is changed - two of the sockets downstairs are actually on the garage feed (fused 15A)!
 
I have just moved house from one that was very well wired (by me) to one that hasn't seen anything done since 1970 when it was built!

I have the good old brown wooden wylex - 4 way of course! Also have the (as expected in these houses) shared neutral problem IF I was to seperate the circuits when I change the CU!
 
davelx said:
two of the sockets downstairs are actually on the garage feed (fused 15A)!
not really a big issue provided that you know which ones they are and keep an eye on how many heavy loads are on that circuit.
 
plugwash said:
davelx said:
two of the sockets downstairs are actually on the garage feed (fused 15A)!
not really a big issue provided that you know which ones they are and keep an eye on how many heavy loads are on that circuit.

Agreed - but I didn't know until I needed to move one and couldn't work out why it was still live when I put my meter across it - no labelling on the CU or anything when I moved in.

Lectrician, yes, my Wylex is a four way and when I re-did the kitchen years ago I put in another two-way for the kitchen ring and cooker point.
 

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