Layman help: no hot water

[trey]

Hi,

Please excuse me for being ignorant regarding plumbing but I really dont have much of a clue.

Just bought my first house. Its a very old ex council exec house with OFCH. Looking at the controls to operate the central heating I was surpsised that there was no option to turn on the hot water without the central heating being on as it was something I was used to in my old house.

Is this normal?

I fired up the central heating and had it on for a good hour or so and theres no problem regarding the radiators other than a few may need bled but thats it however after this time there was still no hot water. I began to worry that I would have to use the electric immersion everytime I wanted hot water which would cost a fortune.

However I traced the pipes and dicovered there was a pipe going into my water cylinder that was hot - I assume this is to heat the hot water when the central heating is on?

There appears to be some sort of join with a valve on this pipe and below this valve the pipe is cold. I think i need to open this valve to allow the CH to heat my hot water?

Another problem here is there doesnt seem to be anyway to open it - i think theres a handle missing as there is a threaded piece of metal coming out of the valve however there is nothing on it.

Any help/comments/suggestions welcome.

Thanks.

 

[ChrisR]

Sounds like a crude old system where you have to turn the valve for ch or hw or both. Pair of pliers?

 

[trey]

have yet to try it with a pair of pliers but tried the electric immersion for the first time last night and it doesnt appear to be doing anything either.

I can monitor my current electric load in teh house and with the immersion on there is no change so it doesnt look like its even trying.

Im thinking of just getting a plumber in as I really dont have a clue.

I might get him to integrate the water heating with the central heating so they can be controlled independently and heated by oil. Is this a big job?

 

[JohnD]

if you can post some pics of the pipework round the cylinder and round the boiler, and any controls, that may help.

fixing the immersion heater might be quite easy, if you are safe to work on electrical items. You will need a multimeter, which you can buy in the high street for about £10 - or have you already got one? Also a set of good screwdrivers. Some photos of the immersion head, cable, switch and fuse will help.

You may later need some pliers. If buying new, get a set with thick plastic insulation round the handles, and a sticky-out finger-guard at the end of the insulation near the hinge.

n.b. do not rely on a neon screwdriver.

 

[Softus]

There is a way in which the system would be working but you'd appear to have no hot water...

Just bought my first house. Its a very old ex council exec house with OFCH. Looking at the controls to operate the central heating I was surpsised that there was no option to turn on the hot water without the central heating being on as it was something I was used to in my old house.

But what controls do you have? And what boiler do you have?

Is this normal?

No.

I fired up the central heating and had it on for a good hour or so and theres no problem regarding the radiators other than a few may need bled but thats it however after this time there was still no hot water.

How long did you run the tap for? Was the top of the cylinder at all warm?

I began to worry that I would have to use the electric immersion everytime I wanted hot water which would cost a fortune.

This is what many people still do in the summertime, leaving the boiler off for a few months. I'm one of them!

However I traced the pipes and dicovered there was a pipe going into my water cylinder that was hot - I assume this is to heat the hot water when the central heating is on?

It would be wise to make no assumptions whatsoever - as has been said, a picture will help us to help you.

There appears to be some sort of join with a valve on this pipe and below this valve the pipe is cold.

Might be a closed bypass, i.e. no cause for it to be open.

I think i need to open this valve to allow the CH to heat my hot water?

Seems unlikely, because it would imply that someone else has shut it.

Another problem here is there doesnt seem to be anyway to open it - i think theres a handle missing as there is a threaded piece of metal coming out of the valve however there is nothing on it.

Sound like a gate valve with a missing handle; again, could be a bypass.

Any help/comments/suggestions welcome.

Please read this (i.e click here).

 

[JohnD]

I just had something similar... the cause of your problem might be entirely different... but, have a look in the loft and see if there is a small Feed & Expansion Tank up there (about 1ft x 1ft x 18") with a ball valve in it, like in a lavatory cistern.

See if it is half-full of water, and if there is a lot of sludge in the bottom, and if, when you push the float down, more water squirts through the valve.

How high is your cylinder in relation to the radiators?

 

[Softus]

Good thinking John.

 

[Rotunda82]

As mentioned above sounds like the valve is a gate valve with the head taken off for a reason Ie. a bypass or even to regulate the flow of the water into/out of the coil - I would leave that alone for the time being.

Also as mentioned above check the tanks in the roof space to make sure they are full and in working condition.

Are there any air vents in the airing cupboard near the cylinder ?

Also are there any valves in the airing cupboard that have cables coming out of them ?

Also you say a few radiators need bleeding - when you bleed them does air/water come out ?

 

[trey]

But what controls do you have? And what boiler do you have?

The control pnly allows me to set a time for the heating to come on and off. Thats all. In my previous residence I had options for heating and hot water. Not sure about the boiler - will check.

How long did you run the tap for? Was the top of the cylinder at all warm?.

I let the tap run for quite a long time - the cylinder is not warm at all.

It would be wise to make no assumptions whatsoever - as has been said, a picture will help us to help you.

I'll work on getting a picture.....

Seems unlikely, because it would imply that someone else has shut it.

But the house was empty and the previous owner had the heat coming on for a few hours a day - maybe he turned it off to avoid heating hot water as well?

EDIT: Cant seem to get my tags working.

Also John I will have a look in the attic - should this tank be full/empty or what. The cylinder is on landing.

 

[JohnD]

is the cylinder above (e.g. on a platform) the bottoms of the radiators.

The F&E should have enough water to cover the exit hole near the bottom. It is better if it is not brim-full as that will leave no expansion room for when the water gets hot.

If someone bleeds a bucket of water out of the radiators, you should see an equivalent drop in the water level in the F&E, and you should see the ball valve open to top it up.

The tags should look like:

[quote="trey"] something or other [/quote]
to get

something or other

 

[trey]

is the cylinder above (e.g. on a platform) the bottoms of the radiators.

thanks for this - i will check this out.

From memory the cylinder is raised up a bit. I will confirm after I've been to the house again.

Thanks for all replies so far.

 

[Softus]

But what controls do you have? And what boiler do you have?

The control pnly allows me to set a time for the heating to come on and off.

Please state brand and model, rather than what you believe it allows you to do.

I'll work on getting a picture.

Do you need any help in doing that?

 

[trey]

Do you need any help in doing that?

Nope but im not currently at the house so by work on it I mean I will ensure I have a camera when i next go and get it online. Thats all.

I'll also check make and model of controls as I do not know them off the top of my head.

 

[trey]

Right just back from the house.

the controls are Danfoss SET1E:



Heres a pic of the cylinder and piping:



This pic shows the valve without a handle i previously mentioned:



I had a look in the attic for the F&E and managed to find it. Hwoever it was on the other side of the attic, on its side connected to nothing and bone dry......major problem?

 

[Lagerkhan]

What a strange setup !
It seems as though 2 tapins have been added to the cylinder
The top pipe of the front four must be for domestic H/W and the second one up must be the cold feed ?
The vent from the top of cylinder seems to be used for just that..a vent.
You need to trace the pipe with the flexi on it (whats this all about ?) and see where it goes..It should be the cold feed from a tank up above.
Check it out and get back.