Leaking Hunter Genova pipework

[Itwashim]

Just moved house. Kept having to bleed rads, then heating engineer noticed pressure was low on boiler (pressurised system provides heating only). He adjusted pressure to correct level. Later on I found a streaming leak in ceiling void! Emergency plumber stripped back plasterboard to find Hunter Genova pipework leaking at a junction. He freaked out because he'd never seen this system before. Having done some research myself I understand it was discontinued about 10 years ago. It also seems to be quite disliked, repair sounds experimental and it's brittle.

Not sure what best move is from here. All visible pipework is copper, so I assume this plastic stuff is all pipework thats hidden in voids/boxing. I'm fearful of a repair going wrong and us being without heating, and a big bill, so wondered if this Fernox leak sealant would get us by until Spring/Summer when I think it'll be best to strip it out and replace with copper or perhaps pick a new greener heating solution since the boilers old too.

I'd love to be able to fix the 1m square gapping hole in our dining room, but fear after leak sealant we'll have the same problem again without warning.

Nightmare! Please discuss.
Thanks

 

[ianmcd]

Sorry but very unlikely that leak sealer will solve your problem, have all the old plastic pipe cut out and replace it, you can replace with new plastic pipe if you want you dont have to use copper

 

[Richardthe3rd]

My advise is replace the leaking pipe & connect onto the Genova in an accessible safer place, where you can easily get access in the future date.

At a push, without proper adapters you can use standard compression fittings on the Genova pipe. I know it can be brittle, so complete replacement is really required, sooner or later.
HTH

 

[Itwashim]

Hi again

Thanks for your help. I've now had several plumbers round with a view to ripping it all out (a couple of which seem to think I'm nuts to go to this length), non are familiar with Hunter Genova. On inspection it's a complex and will prove a distructive layout. Then theres the expensive, £2k+. They are understandably reluctant to give a fixed price or length of time for the work which I feel would be best moved out for. There is also a reality that we may find it's under the floors of two new bathrooms which I really don't want to rip up, so even if I remove the rest I'm still left with a certain amount which will suffer disturbance.

I'd really like to learn as much as possible about this product and if there is any way we can work with it. What are peoples experiences with it? Whats worked, and what hasn't? What products have been used with it? What lessons were learnt?

If I'm armed with the experiences of others, perhaps with the right plumbers help we can come up with a plan thats easier on the pocket and will last.

Thanks again, hopeful I'm inching closer to a day when this black cloud has passed.

 

[TheWobbler]

I know this is an old thread but the internet is full of misinformation about this pipe and I thought if I correct it it may assist others.

My situation is that I live in an apartment building that is completely fitted with Hunter-Genova - no realistic prospect of replacing it all any time soon.

Hunter says you can sand it down and use modern push-fit connectors. The pipe is 5/8" OD (15.875mm so you need to remove AT MOST 0.44mm from the surface). This was done in part of my property using hep2o connectors and has held so far. The company who did it has guaranteed it for 5 years so they can't be that worried about it. The plastic is CPVC which is solid, not soft and flexible like modern plastic pipe.

On a lot of forums people claim it is brittle. It is definitely more brittle than copper or modern plastic but that is a meaningless comparison. I suspect people say this because it looks discoloured, however it is the same horrible color when new! I have some 31 year old pieces that were removed and can flex them 20 degrees without them breaking. I suspect if it is going to rupture anywhere it will be at the solvent-welds due to rotating the pipe so do not undo any brass fittings or valves without stopping the plastics from rotating.

If you contact Hunter they will also tell you they stopped manufacturing this years ago. What they don't tell you is that it was not their product. They licensed the design from an American company called Genova (hence the name, and the awkward outer diameter of 5/8"). Genova still makes and sells this plumbing system today. Parts are identical, specs are identical, even part numbers are identical (download their catalogue from their website and check for yourself: http://www.genovaproducts.com). Careful with the sizes, this is the American system: 1/2" NOMINAL has a 5/8" OD). The only key difference is that the threaded fittings are American NPT which is not the same as BSP threads. You can get thread convertors but they are expensive and usually for hydraulic engineering not domestic plumbing.

I am not making any recommendation either way as to keeping or removing the pipe if you have it, but if you really need the fittings you can get them. You can get some of the parts on eBay and Amazon.com (search for Genova, not Hunter). If you need something specific you will need a friend in the US to send it to you. Also note you want the CPVC fittings not PVC (PVC can not be used for hot water).

 

[PullerGas]

I've used 15 & 22mm compression brass fittings on Hunter Genova many, many times.

 

[TeaMan]

Many thanks PullerGas for the info about using compression brass fittings - worked a treat for us.

 

[Retired plumber]

I agree with all the suggestions here. I installed many systems using Genova and never had a call back. It was probably the first plastic system in the UK and I found it brilliant. I never had any problems with it except when it got frozen when it would shatter as it was a solid plastic not like the modern flexible stuff.
You could get transition fittings to change from plastic to copper or threaded ends (BSP not NPT). I expect there still might be some on the net.

Just a tip here. If you reduce the end of the plastic to take a compression fitting, first nip up the olive onto the pipe then remove the fitting and wrap a few turns of thread tape on the olive and reassemble it. This will take up any irregularities.
It is a shame the Americans haven't moved into the modern world and adopted metric.
In my humble opinion there is absolutely no need to rip it out and replace it. It will last for donkey's years. You can easily work round any leaks.

 

[Ian Lovatt]

I have Hunter Genova throughout my house - very few plumbers will touch it and this thread is amazingly helpful - thank you everyone.

 

[Disaster23]

HELP please. I know this is an old chat but hoping for advice. Just moved from a gravity fed to pressurised water pipe system in my house. I have these Honter-Genova plastic water pipes in the house and leaks since the new system was installed, pipes are leaking at the connections in the house. It is a disaster. Can anyone with knowledge of these pipes advise whether they are suitable for a pressurised water pipe system. Never had a leak before this.

 

[Disaster23]

Just say pipe work has been in house for at least 30 years.

 

[Exedon]

Not the easiest stuff to repair if a number of the solvent welded joints are leaking unfortunately it's probably rip it out time.