i think i did say "modified", the orginal post did not say if it is new light fitting or replacing an existing in the bathroom. IF it is new fitting and the circuit is extended, regardless of weather the cable is buried or not, or the supp. bonding in place a RCD will be required.
Light above basin in bathroom - regs
- Thread starter STEVEROG
- Start date
i think i did say "modified", the orginal post did not say if it is new light fitting or replacing an existing in the bathroom. IF it is new fitting and the circuit is extended, regardless of weather the cable is buried or not, or the supp. bonding in place a RCD will be required.
I disagree.
If it wasn't in a bathroom would you want to add RCD protection to the circuit?
Under the 16th, when adding an outdoor socket to a non-RCD circuit using an RCD outlet was regarded as a perfectly acceptable way to comply with 471-16-01. If you were doing such a job, and noticed that there was already an outdoor socket that wasn't RCD protected would you refuse to add yours unless you were allowed to either replace the other one as well, or put an RCD on the circuit?
Neither of those questions are rhetorical, BTW - I'm interested to see your answers.
In general I'm curious to know why, under the 17th, you think that as well as ensuring that what you do complies you have to update what's already there to a selected subset of the new regulations.
If it wasn't in a bathroom would you want to add RCD protection to the circuit?
Under the 16th, when adding an outdoor socket to a non-RCD circuit using an RCD outlet was regarded as a perfectly acceptable way to comply with 471-16-01. If you were doing such a job, and noticed that there was already an outdoor socket that wasn't RCD protected would you refuse to add yours unless you were allowed to either replace the other one as well, or put an RCD on the circuit?
Neither of those questions are rhetorical, BTW - I'm interested to see your answers.
In general I'm curious to know why, under the 17th, you think that as well as ensuring that what you do complies you have to update what's already there to a selected subset of the new regulations.
But it is a bathroom - hence the special location reg.
However if it was not a bathroom any extension to the circuit burried less than 50mm in a wall would require RCD protection for the cable, either by RCD FCU or a RCBO or RCD in the consumer unit. In addition if a socket outlet less than 20A would also require RCD protection.
We should all be working to the 17th now? I would strongly advise that the exsting outlet be changed to a RCD outlet. Any new outlets would be RCD protected one way or another. Under the 17th there is requirement to protect the cable as well as the outlet by RCD.
I don't, I only expect the part of the circuit I have modified or added to comply will all aspects of the BS7671:2008.
So if it wasn't in a bathroom you wouldn't feel that you had to add RCD protection to the rest of the circuit?
Where's the logic and consistency?
Just the socket you add, or the whole circuit?
That's not the point.
But not insist on it...
What's your attitude to the advice that you can replace a CU without necessarily replacing circuits with no cpc - they've not complied with the regulations for over 40 years?
This post is about a light in a bathroom - somehow you have managed to digress to cover all circuits in all locations.
The logic is in the regs
The consistency is that throughout I have said the MODIFIED part of the circuit requires RCD protection.
The 17th is the point; as it is the 17th that requires the extensive use of RCDs
I am not the Electricity Police, I can't insist on anything if the client does not want to do it - but I can decline to do the work and have done so. It's my name on the cert.
Finally regarding circuits with no cpc, I would not change a CU if there were no cpcs on the circuits other than lighting circuits and this issue has been well documented in the past - try the Electrical Safety Council's website
I have made my point, and this is my last reply to this post.
The logic is in the regs
The consistency is that throughout I have said the MODIFIED part of the circuit requires RCD protection.
The 17th is the point; as it is the 17th that requires the extensive use of RCDs
I am not the Electricity Police, I can't insist on anything if the client does not want to do it - but I can decline to do the work and have done so. It's my name on the cert.
Finally regarding circuits with no cpc, I would not change a CU if there were no cpcs on the circuits other than lighting circuits and this issue has been well documented in the past - try the Electrical Safety Council's website
I have made my point, and this is my last reply to this post.
Only because your position, shared by others, seemed to me to be inconsistent with other situations/locations, inconsistent with like situations under the 16th, and inconsistent with advice given by the Electrical Safety Council....
That was the advice to which I referred, and it is of course lighting circuits I was talking about, and the advice does say that when push comes to shove you can in some circumstances replace a CU and not have to bring the circuits up to the standard of the 14th Edition, let alone the 17th.
Which doesn't seem consistent with the frequently expressed belief that if you're changing a CU you're taking responsibility for the compliance of the whole installation...
I want to add that I've not been trying to just pick a disagreement with you - I was genuinely interested in your arguments, hence my questions etc. I may disagree with you, but that's because my reading is that as you've not introduced the circuit to the bathroom, just a stretch of cable then you don't have to ensure that your work complies with the regulations that apply to bathroom circuits, only with the ones that affect the cable, but other than that I see where you're coming from, and I thank you for answering my questions.
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