lighting circuit has gone

[reedy999]

i have recently removed a ceiling rose and the switch cable which were not needed. the task was relatively simple and i connected the two circuit cables to each other with access through the boards in the room above. however, since then, most of the lighting circuit has failed. there are 11 roses in the circuit, 3 of these occur before the one i removed, and the rest occur after. the first 2 still work, but the 3rd and the ones after do not. when i've tested the roses, i've noticed that each of the return switch live cables is always live, whether the switch is on or off. why could this be? also, if it was always live, wouldn't the bulbs always be on? really confused

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Have you looked at you connections are they any loose ones or one that has slipped out of it's terminal.
Please explain what cables you have there, if it's a loop in/out
You should have two sets of cables each with a red/brown, black/blue and earth(yellow and Green sleeved).
And how did you connect the cables, what did you use to do this?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You've misidentified some cables somewhere.

How were you testing? If it was with a neon screwdriver, forget it, and get a multimeter and start tracing/identifying the cables by continuity testing.

 

[reedy999]

the circuit cables each have a red / black and sleeved earth, i definitely removed the correct switch cable, i managed to pull it through the trunking inside the wall quite easily from the boards above after i had disconnected it. i re-connected the reds / black and earth cables using a 5amp junction box. when i did this, some of the roses failed. i checked the rose before, noticed that the switch cable live return was always live, checked the next rose, and have noticed that the switch cable live return is always live too. not sure what could have gone wrong. yes, i am using a screwdriver to test live, have nothing else as am not an electrician.

 

[DetlefSchmitz]

The switched live runs parallel to a live and is capacitively coupled to it. So the screwdriver lights up. It is not a diagnostic tool.

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

The neon screwdriver is used for stirring your tea, put it in the cutlery draw or buy a teaspoon and throw the neon away.
A multi meter is needed for your tests, but check for loose connection at the first light on circuit that has failed and the previous one to that.
You may have pulled something loose whilst working on it.

 

[1john]

The fault is almost certainly in your junction box, almost. Neon screwdriver is useless, you need a multi meter.

 

[reedy999]

sorry, i checked the first rose to fail, i assumed that it might be a prob with the rose itself and so effectively removed the rose from the equation by removing the flex cables and the switch cable altogether, and just leaving the switch cable in and out connected to each other, this had no effect on the rest of the circuit which is still out. whats interesting, is that none of my working switch cable returns lights up the screwdriver, only those on the roses which are not working. i have checked the junction box connections, they are all good. is it possible that i could have pulled something out further down the circuit? and if so, how do i know where? do i just assume its the next one along? and how do i know what to check. i've looked at what i assume is the next rose in the circuit and the connections seem fine, all the 3 lives, 2 neutrals and switch return are good, as are the flex connections etc. really confused by this

 

[1john]

You may have a crossed polarity situation, but really you MUST have a multi-meter, you can get a basic one for about a tenner, really the neon screwdriver is complete junk with NO accuracy whatsoever !!!!!

 

[reedy999]

ok i will buy one, can you let me know how to use it? crossed polarity, do you mean crossed wires? to recap, the lighting circuit had 12 roses in it, i removed the fourth as it was not needed, the first 2 still work, rose 3 and 5 and the rest do not. i assumed that there might be a prob with the rose numbered 3 and so removed the 2 sets of circuit cables from the rose and connected them via a junction box, this has no effect and so i guess that the rose must be fine but have left it out of the equation temporarily and left it disconnected. i then thought that maybe i had damaged the circuit cable which ran between roses 3 and 4 when i removed rose 4, to check this i removed the cable and connected the circuit cable coming out of rose 2 (which still works) with the cable going into rose 5 (using a 5amp junction box). the lights are still out tho 1 and 2 still work. my thoughts now are that there might be a prob with the circuit cable going into rose 5 (which originally ran between rose 4 and 5 and which is currently connected to circuit cable coming from rose 2. however, this is much harder to check as the cable runs into another room which is carpetted etc and so cannot be viewed as easily from above. however, when i check the rose (using a screwdriver admittedly) the lives, neutrals and switch return live are all live. how would i use the multimeter to check what was happening? please help

 

[PrenticeBoyofDerry]

Have you wired rose three back up, if not do that and check back at light fitting two.
But you do need a multi-meter to confirm what you are saying is true, regarding power at switches futher down the circuit. As this sounds like you have connected up incorrectly.
Instruction on use will come with the meter, if you are struggling to understand them post back and it can be explained.