Lighting Wiring

[fdunne]

Morning All,

I am new to Forum and this is my 1st Post, so apologies for the Dumbness lol

We have bought some new Light Fittings and I am looking into fitting them myself,

Now, I opened the Light and the fitting at the Top, had three wires going into the Junction box which was fine as I have read there should be a Green/Yellow one, blue one and a Black or Brown one I think

However, having looked at the existing Light Fitting, this is true, as I can see several Wires, but could see the Brown and Blue one travelling down into the Light Fitting and also the Green/Yellow one.

I presume the other Wires are for the Previous and next Light Fitting etc

So, I go back to my New Light Fitting and open the Junction Box, to see the three wires in the Junction Box, Green/Yellow in the middle and either side is a Clear Plastic casing with a Wire Inside.

Now, this is where I am stuck, as Expected to see one Blue and one Brown Wire, but checking all on the Casing and wires, there is no indication as to which is which

So, I am wondering iof anyone can help on this

I have attached some diagram of old Light Fitting and New one, any help greatly appreciated

Socket Wiring

Socket Wiring 2

Copper Cable on New Light Fitting

New Light Fitting Junction Box

 

[stargazer]

Did the light not come with installation instructions?

It doesn’t matter which way round you wire in the live and neutral to the clear wires at either end of that terminal block in the new fitting (not the middle one!).

Remember you must also connect an earth wire from the earth terminal in your ceiling rose to the middle terminal in the new fitting.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

You plan to connect this light to the existing ceiling rose, do you, not take the place of the rose?

 

[fdunne]

Cheers chaps,

It's all coming a bit clearer now.

I also had a look at the Junction box last night and Instructions and on the Junction bow, each clear cable is labelled L and N, and in the Instructions tells you what side to connect the Live and Nuetral one, so pretty straight forward.

Just a few more Questions, I am going to replace the Ceiling Rose as, the one we bought comes with its own Ceiling Fitting.

So, after reading the Info above, this is how I am going to wire it up, any mistakes I am making, please let me know so, I don't get Frazzled LOL

Firstly, I have been told to either just Switch the Light off at Wall Socket which should be fine, and others have said to be safe, actually switch the whole Electrics off in Apartment from the Main box. Which is best?

Secondly, I will obviously undo all the screws and so forth in order to get the old Ceiling Rose off and then I will drill/Screw the new Ceiling Rose on

Fourthly, I will attach all the cables up, as in Earth Cable from Ceiling into the middle Earth Connection on Junction box for Light, and then Live and Nuetral Either Side according to Instructions.

Then lastly, just tidy everything up, and fasten the Light Fitting onto Ceiling to cover up wires and then switch on and hopefully theres Light

However, a few questions I have are, Firstly, if you look at the old Ceiling Rose, it may be me being stupid but the Earth Wire, just looks like it has come from Ceiling and into the Screw Holder and fastened, so not actually attached to Anything. Is this the case or am i missing something, as if it is like this for Existing light, why is it that I have to connect this to Junction box for new Light?

Secondly, there is in one of the Diagrams which has a copper wire just fastened into screw, so,do I leave this fastened in there when tightened everything up, or does this go somewhere else, I presumed it was a kind of earth wire as the Light Fitting is Metal?

Don't think I have missed anything, any any help on this would be great, planning on Fitting one Tonight before Girlfriend comes home as a Surprise, so I need to get it right, otherwise the surprise will be her coming in to find her Boyfriend half cooked LOL

 

[stargazer]

I also had a look at the Junction box last night and Instructions and on the Junction bow, each clear cable is labelled L and N, and in the Instructions tells you what side to connect the Live and Neutral one, so pretty straight forward.

Jolly good.

Just a few more Questions, I am going to replace the Ceiling Rose as, the one we bought comes with its own Ceiling Fitting.

Does the new ceiling fitting contain the necessary terminals to replicate the wiring in the existing rose? If not, you will need to install additional terminals to maintain the continuity of your lighting circuit, for example “choc block” screw terminals.

Firstly, I have been told to either just Switch the Light off at Wall Socket which should be fine, and others have said to be safe, actually switch the whole Electrics off in Apartment from the Main box. Which is best?

No, it is not safe just to switch off the light at the wall socket. This will leave live terminals in your ceiling rose. Switching off all the electrics in your apartment at the main switch will also turn off your fridge, and this is not a job you want to rush. Instead turn of the MCB/remove the fuse in your fusebox protecting your lighting circuit. Then use a multimeter to check that there are no live terminals in the ceiling rose before you start pulling it apart.

Secondly, I will obviously undo all the screws and so forth in order to get the old Ceiling Rose off and then I will drill/Screw the new Ceiling Rose on

Make sure you don’t drill/screw into existing cables and you have sufficient support in the ceiling to take the weight of the new fitting.

What happened to thirdly?

Fourthly, I will attach all the cables up, as in Earth Cable from Ceiling into the middle Earth Connection on Junction box for Light, and then Live and Neutral Either Side according to Instructions.

You may find there is not much play in those cables going into the ceiling, so if you are thinking of just pulling them down to wire into the new rose you may have problems. You may have to install a chock block to replace the connections in your ceiling rose, and wire your new fitting into that. The instructions should recommend the appropriate cable for this purpose.

However, a few questions I have are, Firstly, if you look at the old Ceiling Rose, it may be me being stupid but the Earth Wire, just looks like it has come from Ceiling and into the Screw Holder and fastened, so not actually attached to Anything. Is this the case or am i missing something, as if it is like this for Existing light, why is it that I have to connect this to Junction box for new Light?

Those earth wires are important in that they are attached to each other- they maintain the continuity of the circuit protective conductor (earthing) throughout your lighting circuit. You MUST replicate this wiring arrangement exactly in the new fitting.

Secondly, there is in one of the Diagrams which has a copper wire just fastened into screw, so,do I leave this fastened in there when tightened everything up, or does this go somewhere else, I presumed it was a kind of earth wire as the Light Fitting is Metal?

Yes, leave it alone!

Don't think I have missed anything, any any help on this would be great, planning on Fitting one Tonight before Girlfriend comes home as a Surprise, so I need to get it right, otherwise the surprise will be her coming in to find her Boyfriend half cooked LOL

As far as the girlfriend goes, an extra pair of hands is often useful when tackling this type of job. Many a time I have had Mrs Stargazer holding my fittings while I screw.

No offence, but if you’re not confident about doing this job I wonder if you should get an electrician in? I don’t want you to get half cooked either.

 

[fdunne]

Right, seems good

I mean as in I have a good idea where all the Connections and Cables go.

On the new Fitting there is no Terminal/Junction box for all the cables to go into that come/go to/from other lights in house.

However, looking at the existing Rose, the Big plastic Junction box that has all these cables in, looks to be seperate form the Ceiling Rose so presumed i could install and use this in new Ceiling Rose Fitting?

 

[stargazer]

Yes, if there’s room in the new fitting you could just leave the back plate of your existing ceiling rose in position – like your second picture, but with the existing pendant removed.
Then wire in your new light to the existing connectors, and install it directly underneath the existing rose.

 

[scousespark]

As far as the girlfriend goes, an extra pair of hands is often useful when tackling this type of job. Many a time I have had Mrs Stargazer holding my fittings while I screw.

Stargazer, I think you are in the wrong forum for this quote.

FD. I would suggest you do this job on Saturday morning. You don't want to be trying to get your lights sorted as darkness creeps in.

 

[stargazer]

You’d be amazed what two people on a step-ladder can do

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Depends how sturdy the ladder is....

 

[soaringjock]

AAAAAARRRRGGGHHHHH!!!!, DAMN YOU B.A.S., I`VE GONE BLIND!!!!!

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Sorry, but how was I to know you'd find it that exciting?

It's gonna be tricky shaving the palms of your hands now you can't see, isn't it....

 

[scousespark]

Always wondered what BAS looks like

It's a bit dark up here FD, hope you've left the job till the weekend - or finsihed it.

 

[fdunne]

Right Lads

Got home yesterday and had a bit of time, so thought Id check it out

Switched mains off, opened up casing on Ceiling Rose, and undid the Light Wires to have a look

Now my actual ceiling rose has not got a box in it to house all the seperate cables, so was thinking of looking at using the existing Junction

Now, my new Ceiling rose will fit over the old one quite easily and the Screw Holes are literally in the exact same place, so don't need to drill new ones.

However, think my only difficulty is going to be cutting the plastic casing on New Light Cable to make then Long enough which is no problem.

Just one Question about the Earth, I check both my Lights in the Lounge and one, as you can see above, seems to have an Earth coming from Ceiling and into and Screw Fitting to hold it. However the other one, which is the one we are putting this lighting on, seems to have 2 seperate earth cables coming from what looks the ceiling into the Screw Fitting either side.

Now, all the cabling i am pretty confident of what to do, apart from the earth, Just to clarify, regardless of whether its like the fitting above, or the other one i explained with 2 Earths, am I just taking the Earth from the New Light Fitting and placing this inside the Screw Fitting where the Ceiling Earths are, and if i do this, it means the copper bits of cables at end are touching, is this okay?

Hope that makes sense

 

[stargazer]

so was thinking of looking at using the existing Junction.
Now, my new Ceiling rose will fit over the old one quite easily and the Screw Holes are literally in the exact same place, so don't need to drill new ones.

Excellent.

However, think my only difficulty is going to be cutting the plastic casing on New Light Cable to make then Long enough which is no problem.

Not sure what you mean. Is it a problem or not?

Just one Question about the Earth, I check both my Lights in the Lounge and one, as you can see above, seems to have an Earth coming from Ceiling and into and Screw Fitting to hold it. However the other one, which is the one we are putting this lighting on, seems to have 2 seperate earth cables coming from what looks the ceiling into the Screw Fitting either side.

They should be connected together in the same terminal. Are you sure they are both earths? Picture please.

Now, all the cabling i am pretty confident of what to do, apart from the earth, Just to clarify, regardless of whether its like the fitting above, or the other one i explained with 2 Earths, am I just taking the Earth from the New Light Fitting and placing this inside the Screw Fitting where the Ceiling Earths are, and if i do this

You must make a connection between central earth terminal of your new light fitting and the earth terminal in the ceiling rose using insulated cable. All the earth wires in the ceiling rose should be connected together.

it means the copper bits of cables at end are touching, is this okay?

If you mean touching each other in terminal blocks, then yes. Electrical circuits would not work if that did not happen.


You could use a short piece of 3 core 6 Amp flex to make all 3 connections between the terminal block of the new light fitting and the connectors in the ceiling rose. Something like this:-
http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Cable_Index/Flex_White_1/