Lime render - Please Help
- Thread starter ziggy1979
- Start date
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Hi Guys
It seems like you are all well aware of how our European neighbours approach all manner of jobs ... not just gas ones!
Its for this reason that I asked for your advice ... I just feel like I'd lose less sleep learning from you guys than from what a local contractor might say ... frankly short of the british standards and professionals (and i guess the Germans from what I've heard) I'm not sure I'd have a whole lotta faith in other EU peeps ... particularly the Spaniards, Italians, etc. - and I have Spanish family!!!
A friend of mine has had an old property, similar to our one renovated locally. They rendered the internal walls about 12-18 months ago with cement render (not lime putty) then a finish plaster (again no line) (ie normal skim plaster). Before the cement render they used a black tar like paint to apparently "stop moisture coming through the wall". He now has damp and crystals forming in part of his ground floor walls and ... wait for it ... they reckon there must be a pipe there!
I dont know whether they sell lime putty, etc in Spain ... but Im sure we could have a couple of pallets of the stuff shipped over (we are having other stuff shipped over too so I gues it can all go together).
With regards to the studwork am i correct in thinking:
1. Aluminium studs are best as they won't rot as a result of any moisture in the walls/ground (unlike wooden ones).
2. We should leave a gap (e.g. 10mm or as large as we need for services to be run) between the back of the studwork and the stone walls.
3. We should insulate in between the studs.
4. We should put a vapour barrier and then the plasterboard directly over the vapour barrier.
Also, is spray foam recommended or should we avoid it as it could expand and "seal" the stone wall behind the studwork.
Thanks again for all your help!!!
PS - From experience Spain does have rules and regulations (most of them come from EU anyways) ... its just that there's a certain lack when it comes to both observing them and alomst more importantly, enforcing them. Although I must say that in a country with about 40 odd million people not everyone can be the same ... or can they?!?
It seems like you are all well aware of how our European neighbours approach all manner of jobs ... not just gas ones!
Its for this reason that I asked for your advice ... I just feel like I'd lose less sleep learning from you guys than from what a local contractor might say ... frankly short of the british standards and professionals (and i guess the Germans from what I've heard) I'm not sure I'd have a whole lotta faith in other EU peeps ... particularly the Spaniards, Italians, etc. - and I have Spanish family!!!
A friend of mine has had an old property, similar to our one renovated locally. They rendered the internal walls about 12-18 months ago with cement render (not lime putty) then a finish plaster (again no line) (ie normal skim plaster). Before the cement render they used a black tar like paint to apparently "stop moisture coming through the wall". He now has damp and crystals forming in part of his ground floor walls and ... wait for it ... they reckon there must be a pipe there!
I dont know whether they sell lime putty, etc in Spain ... but Im sure we could have a couple of pallets of the stuff shipped over (we are having other stuff shipped over too so I gues it can all go together).
With regards to the studwork am i correct in thinking:
1. Aluminium studs are best as they won't rot as a result of any moisture in the walls/ground (unlike wooden ones).
2. We should leave a gap (e.g. 10mm or as large as we need for services to be run) between the back of the studwork and the stone walls.
3. We should insulate in between the studs.
4. We should put a vapour barrier and then the plasterboard directly over the vapour barrier.
Also, is spray foam recommended or should we avoid it as it could expand and "seal" the stone wall behind the studwork.
Thanks again for all your help!!!
PS - From experience Spain does have rules and regulations (most of them come from EU anyways) ... its just that there's a certain lack when it comes to both observing them and alomst more importantly, enforcing them. Although I must say that in a country with about 40 odd million people not everyone can be the same ... or can they?!?
T
thatbloke
lime putty will cost you a fortune to ship to spain. are you sure its not a clay based plaster? why not just use what the locals would have used 200 years ago? if this is lime then make your plaster up the same way they did?
what you have to remember is you are not trying to make your house waterproof , it should be able to 'breath' meaning any moisture from the floor or cracks in the render should be able to pass through the plaster and evaporate , so , even the paint you use will need to be able to let moisture pass through. limewash , distemper , clay based paints etc should be used.
i have seen stone walls collapse due to damp , a major problem is when the moisture seeps into the walls through cracks or up from below , it saturates the old lime or earth mortar holding the wall together and if it cannot evaporate through the render or plaster it stays there , now , add frost to this situation. if the water freezes it expands virtually blowing the mortar apart.
ive just rebuilt a clay lump wall that suffered from this , some body coated the wall in cement render and plaster , or course it cracked , got damp , froze during the winter and fell apart soon afterwards.
i wouldnt even consider doing a job like this with modern cement based materials.
what you have to remember is you are not trying to make your house waterproof , it should be able to 'breath' meaning any moisture from the floor or cracks in the render should be able to pass through the plaster and evaporate , so , even the paint you use will need to be able to let moisture pass through. limewash , distemper , clay based paints etc should be used.
i have seen stone walls collapse due to damp , a major problem is when the moisture seeps into the walls through cracks or up from below , it saturates the old lime or earth mortar holding the wall together and if it cannot evaporate through the render or plaster it stays there , now , add frost to this situation. if the water freezes it expands virtually blowing the mortar apart.
ive just rebuilt a clay lump wall that suffered from this , some body coated the wall in cement render and plaster , or course it cracked , got damp , froze during the winter and fell apart soon afterwards.
i wouldnt even consider doing a job like this with modern cement based materials.
Hi Thatbloke
Thanks for your reply. I'm totally with you on avoiding the use of modern (cement based) products and this is the reason for the post. From my mfriend and my parents, I know that contractors out there seem to be ignorant to "traditional" techniques, hence the tar paint, cement render, etc.
Our architect has advised that we need to render using lime putty and the concern is that the builders we have spoken to seem ignorant to what it is (we have spoken with two of the largest local building companies not individuals).
The strange thing is that my parents own an old place out there too (not as old as ours but still from approx 1890 and made from (lime)stone and all manner of muck!) ... they had theirs replastered about 12-13 years ago (normal basecoat and finishing plaster) and their walls are also thick stone walls. Although they have a flat and are on the top floor (rather than a house like ours and I'm guessing less chance of damp rising from the ground) they have never had any cracks, damp patches, etc. Also, they paint with normal emulsion paints.
Could it be that the climate out there is more forgiving?
Thanks again for everyone's help!!!
Zigs
Thanks for your reply. I'm totally with you on avoiding the use of modern (cement based) products and this is the reason for the post. From my mfriend and my parents, I know that contractors out there seem to be ignorant to "traditional" techniques, hence the tar paint, cement render, etc.
Our architect has advised that we need to render using lime putty and the concern is that the builders we have spoken to seem ignorant to what it is (we have spoken with two of the largest local building companies not individuals).
The strange thing is that my parents own an old place out there too (not as old as ours but still from approx 1890 and made from (lime)stone and all manner of muck!) ... they had theirs replastered about 12-13 years ago (normal basecoat and finishing plaster) and their walls are also thick stone walls. Although they have a flat and are on the top floor (rather than a house like ours and I'm guessing less chance of damp rising from the ground) they have never had any cracks, damp patches, etc. Also, they paint with normal emulsion paints.
Could it be that the climate out there is more forgiving?
Thanks again for everyone's help!!!
Zigs
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T
thatbloke
for a start there is no such thing as rising damp , apparently its just a myth.
http://www.askjeff.co.uk/rising_damp.html
perhaps the stone walls have some way of coping with thermal expansion thus keeping the cement render in one piece? perhaps they are just lucky?
if i were you i would try to hunt down an old fella who used to be a plasterer way back in the day or certainly try and find someone who knows about traditional building methods before trying anything else.
http://www.askjeff.co.uk/rising_damp.html
perhaps the stone walls have some way of coping with thermal expansion thus keeping the cement render in one piece? perhaps they are just lucky?
if i were you i would try to hunt down an old fella who used to be a plasterer way back in the day or certainly try and find someone who knows about traditional building methods before trying anything else.
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