Lining Paper and Wallpaper in one morning

[deadfire19]

Hey all!

I was wondering what I should have expected when a decorator came to wallpaper a single (prepared) wall. 7 x 2.4m .

I fully expected him to put down the lining paper, let it dry and come back the next day to put in the wallpaper.

He came in at 8am and left by 2pm (with an hour lunch), (charging me £320, no material cost [north london]). He said it's fine to put wallpaper straight onto damp lining paper.

I'm wondering if I've been ripped off.

I have yet to see if the bubbles go away under the wallpaper but there are some pretty substantial ones.

Is this the normal way to do things?

 

[opps]

Jesus wept.

I am a decorator in west London.

I would never apply wallpaper to wet lining paper.

Additionally, I use smoothing tools to ensure that I don't get any bubbles in my lining paper or wallpaper. The smoothing tool removes both air and excess paste. When I leave site, I want the lining paper to look the same way it will the next day.

Ordinarily, the walls are supposed to be sized with a diluted paste mix which is then allowed to dry. Personally, I apply full fat paste to wall and lining paper simultaneously. It works for me...

Some wallpapers are too fragile to smooth using a smoothing tool. With such papers, I will use a brush to flatten the paper. If a pasting brush is used to apply the glue, you may end up with excess glue that creates slight lumps that should disappear as the glue dries. I get around that problem by using a roller to apply the paste to the paper. You end up with uniform coverage.

How long ago was the work done? Two layers of wallpaper may take up to 36(?) hours to dry. Open the windows to help the moisture leave the room.

Regarding the price. I don't know how many wall sockets he had to loosen and tuck the paper behind. Please tell me that he didn't just cut around the sockets/switches.

£320 for 5 hours labour... £20 quid to park? An hour or two to set up (dust sheets etc). I charge up to £200 for a full 8 hours and I have loads of expensive Festool dust extractors and sanders (capital expenditure that I need a return on). That said, I don't do one day jobs and I am (intentionally) not VAT registered). Admittedly, if I had to turn up over 2 days, and only do short days (eg size wall, return, line, then come back and paper, I would factor in travel costs. He didn't do that though.

Can you post photos of the work? How clean are the cuts?

 

[deadfire19]

Jesus wept.

I am a decorator in west London.

I would never apply wallpaper to wet lining paper.

Additionally, I use smoothing tools to ensure that I don't get any bubbles in my lining paper or wallpaper. The smoothing tool removes both air and excess paste. When I leave site, I want the lining paper to look the same way it will the next day.

Ordinarily, the walls are supposed to be sized with a diluted paste mix which is then allowed to dry. Personally, I apply full fat paste to wall and lining paper simultaneously. It works for me...

Some wallpapers are too fragile to smooth using a smoothing tool. With such papers, I will use a brush to flatten the paper. If a pasting brush is used to apply the glue, you may end up with excess glue that creates slight lumps that should disappear as the glue dries. I get around that problem by using a roller to apply the paste to the paper. You end up with uniform coverage.

How long ago was the work done? Two layers of wallpaper may take up to 36(?) hours to dry. Open the windows to help the moisture leave the room.

Regarding the price. I don't know how many wall sockets he had to loosen and tuck the paper behind. Please tell me that he didn't just cut around the sockets/switches.

£320 for 5 hours labour... £20 quid to park? An hour or two to set up (dust sheets etc). I charge up to £200 for a full 8 hours and I have loads of expensive Festool dust extractors and sanders (capital expenditure that I need a return on). Admittedly, if I had to turn over 2 days, and only do short days (eg size wall, return, line, then come back and paper, I would factor in travel costs. He didn't do that though.

Can you post photos of the work? How clean are the cuts?

The wall was prepared, all sockets removed since we redid the electrics, no skirting board either.

He parked on my drive for free.

Learned my lesson, sounds like I got taken for a ride...

 

[Justin Passing]

I wouldn't have paid until the bubbles had gone. If the lining papaer wasn't soaked long enough, they may NEVER go.
I did find ages ago, that a wall I'd papered had bubbles which remained (not lining paper), so I resigned myself to going back the next Monday to stripping and starting again. I found they HAD all gone. It as much less porous than lining paper though.
Only did my own flats - I never tried papering on damp LP!

£320 for a day may be ok in N. London, just. I'd have opps' arm off. Where are you, @opps ??!!

 

[opps]

Ok, so it was a paper that needed to be smoothed with a papering brush.

Image number 1 will never sort itself as the glue dries.

The final image, hard to say, but the crease may be in the lining paper (which should not happen). and if it did happen, you would sand it out the following day- hence the importance of letting products dry.

Perhaps ask the fellow to provide evidence from the wall paper manufacturer that recommends hanging the paper over wet lining paper.

 

[opps]

I wouldn't have paid until the bubbles had gone. If the lining papaer wasn't soaked long enough, they may NEVER go.
I did find ages ago, that a wall I'd papered had bubbles which remained (not lining paper), so I resigned myself to going back the next Monday to stripping and starting again. I found they HAD all gone. It as much less porous than lining paper though.
Only did my own flats - I never tried papering on damp LP!

£320 for a day may be ok in N. London, just. I'd have opps' arm off. Where are you, @opps ??!!

You should not have bubbles in the first place if you apply the lining paper correctly.

I have only had bubbles when, under duress, I have applied lining paper over existing wallpaper. It was the old wallpaper that bubbled. I was working for a mate that was trying to keep costs down. I had to cut through both coats and squirt in some paste.

 

[Justin Passing]

You should not have bubbles in the first place if you apply the lining paper correctly.

I agree, if you mean let the paste soak in as long as it says on the instructions, before hanging. After I realised that, no more bubbles.
I do remember a bit of slit and squirt. Easier if there's some pattern you can find a line on to slit, where the bubble is.


Gawd, memories, of redoing my first HMO, with a 6ft 6 day-labourer Estonian with no English, using 2 steamers lashed together to get the woodchip off. Huge pile of 1000 weight quad rolls of LP, precarious ladders on the stairwells and a decorator to 'give me a hand'.
The decorator's pile went down twice as fast as mine... I got a bit faster but decided it wouldn't be my career path. He was puffing a fag and I was knackered.


One tip I learned for painting LP - if there's a slight gap showing between the LP edges, especially when it's thick, it really is worth a wipe of fine surface filler. Done and dry in no time.

 

[conny]

If those bubbles do dry out flat, there is a good chance they have not stuck to the actual wall.
My dad wasn't a decorator by trade, but he could give a tradesman a run for his money on quality issues.
I learnt a lot from dad, (and even more when I didn't follow his advice!), over the years.

 

[opps]

I agree, if you mean let the paste soak in as long as it says on the instructions, before hanging. After I realised that, no more bubbles.
I do remember a bit of slit and squirt. Easier if there's some pattern you can find a line on to slit, where the bubble is.


Gawd, memories, of redoing my first HMO, with a 6ft 6 day-labourer Estonian with no English, using 2 steamers lashed together to get the woodchip off. Huge pile of 1000 weight quad rolls of LP, precarious ladders on the stairwells and a decorator to 'give me a hand'.
The decorator's pile went down twice as fast as mine... I got a bit faster but decided it wouldn't be my career path. He was puffing a fag and I was knackered.


One tip I learned for painting LP - if there's a slight gap showing between the LP edges, especially when it's thick, it really is worth a wipe of fine surface filler. Done and dry in no time.

I am not convinced that the lack of bubbles is exclusively down to soaking times. I intentionally, slightly under-soak my lining paper given that I full fat paste the wall moments before applying the lining paper. Assuming that the wall is flat, bubbles seem most likely to be the result of air under the lining paper. The vinyl smoother technique pushes the air out.

The problem with oversoaking is that the paper will shrink back. Not necessarily an issue if you are cross lining prior to hanging wallpaper.

I try to eliminate any gaps between drops of lining paper but, yeah, they sometimes happen. When they do, I apply the first of emulsion, let it dry, sand the gap with 180g paper and use a soft filler such as Red Devil OneTime. I then sand that with 220 grit paper.

Yeah, wood chip is a paint to remove, especially if it has vinyl silk over it. I normally use a scraper to dislodge the chips (very dusty) then use a pump up water sprayer to soak it, and then run a paper tiger over it (to leave perforations) and use a steam stripper. Fortunately, I rarely come across it.

Quad rolls- I quite like them. When you are using the pasting table to precut the paper, the cut off sections do not automatically try to roll back up to the other end. That said, I find double rolls easier to work with.