Lisa montgomery

Fourth step is harsher mandatory sentences without any discount. Example: you're caught with a firearm, 10 years of which the first 2 in complete isolation and half hour/day of fresh air from a window.
Unfortunately this will never happen because of cuts you mentioned, from Tories and Labour.
I remember many years of labour governments and that's when my friendly criminals were let free, this is because of criminals having rights and victims being guilty of existing.
Do gooders are the plague of society and incidentally are mostly labour supporters like you.

Tougher sentences don't reduce crime, although I understand the sentiment.

A properly funded justice system to ensure sentencing is rapid and probation service closely monitors afterwards.

I agree with some of your other comments though....more police, better support in schools.
 
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Not at all.
In fact, I believe that better environment/ambience is the first step towards less crime.
More school support is the second step to identify children at risk of being sucked into crime and stop it.
More police, tougher and not afraid to be complained about is the third step, so to give little or no space to criminals.
Fourth step is harsher mandatory sentences without any discount. Example: you're caught with a firearm, 10 years of which the first 2 in complete isolation and half hour/day of fresh air from a window.
Unfortunately this will never happen because of cuts you mentioned, from Tories and Labour.
I remember many years of labour governments and that's when my friendly criminals were let free, this is because of criminals having rights and victims being guilty of existing.
Do gooders are the plague of society and incidentally are mostly labour supporters like you.

Aww so nearly there until you trip up at the end.

What cuts were under Labour? Its interesting to find out how much they cut.

Do Gooders - lol. Primary school level argument.

Third world countries have higher crime and harsher sentencing and prisons yet crime is still high.
 
Aww so nearly there until you trip up at the end.

What cuts were under Labour? Its interesting to find out how much they cut.

Do Gooders - lol. Primary school level argument.

Third world countries have higher crime and harsher sentencing and prisons yet crime is still high.
Third world country have to deal with poverty which in turns fuels criminality.
In such countries the law doesn't matter and neither the sentences because people are hungry.
They'd rather risk jail than die of starvation.

About Labour/Tory argument, it is clear that there is no point having a discussion with you about it, so i just say "you're right, Labour is the best party, they never made a mistake and if they'd been in power from end of the war to now we would be living in houses made of gold and diamonds.
 
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How do we go from US death penalty to Tory cuts? Looks like we need to write another skill for the GD trollbots.

Law and enforcement is determined by the balance between society's tolerance of crime, the cost of enforcing deterrents and the moral dilemma that is set by its appetite to lock up a certain percentage of the population. The golden egg has always been the promise of improving people's lives so that they don't commit crime. We have gone from crimes to sustain life (e.g. victorian poor steeling food) to crimes to sustain lifestyle (London gangsters wanting Mercedes). There will always be people looking for a short cut and willing to take the risk.
 
How do we go from US death penalty to Tory cuts? Looks like we need to write another skill for the GD trollbots

because Johnny2007 complained about the useless justice system


Police workforce 2010 244,497
police workforce 2018 199,752

Motorbiking says I must be a trollbot for making such a silly connection......crime and police numbers

Interesting idea that people only commit crime because they need a Mercedes.
 
he did.. based on his experience, which you linked to your political view based on.. no experience.

Pretty sure a smart person can see I was not suggesting all crime was based on the desire to own a Benz.

Why don't you look a little further at policing trends
All.PNG
 
Third world country have to deal with poverty which in turns fuels criminality.
In such countries the law doesn't matter and neither the sentences because people are hungry.
They'd rather risk jail than die of starvation.

About Labour/Tory argument, it is clear that there is no point having a discussion with you about it, so i just say "you're right, Labour is the best party, they never made a mistake and if they'd been in power from end of the war to now we would be living in houses made of gold and diamonds.

You will find that I have voted for both Labour and Tory -Cameron twice - so your last sentence exposes your bias. Don't be bashful now.
 
Just out of interest, how would you define 'worst cases of murder'?

See original post for starters ;)

Than there is the murder of Joe Cox

That child in Scotland kidnapped raped and murdered

6 years old
 
Usual waffle about it is not a deterrent

Who cares

Not transam

Retribution is the order of the day ;)
 
Johnnny2007 is in favour of police having the freedom to knock suspects about to get a conviction.

Here's a description of one example where torture, brutality and false confessions were used so that guilty criminals escaped investigation, and random innocents were sentenced instead.

This practice led to convictions, but not to justice.


"Each man was ordered to change his clothes. A search of X's possessions revealed several cards printed in reference to Y. Upon discovering these cards, two officers led X into an adjacent room, where he was repeatedly punched, kicked and, later, burned with a lit cigarette by three officers as his arms were restrained by the two policemen who had escorted him into the room. Similar assaults were committed upon A, B, C and, to a lesser degree, D, the officers who administered these beatings took great care to avoid marking the men's faces.

At 12:55 on the afternoon of 22 November, while detained at z police station, X signed a confession admitting his involvement in the y bombings. This confession was extracted after X had been subjected to extreme physical and psychological abuse, which included repeated kicking in the stomach, head and legs, dragging by the hair, and the stretching of his scrotum.


False confessions
The five men were transferred to the custody of the B squad on the afternoon of 22 November. At 22:45 that evening, C was arrested at his home in x and driven to y police station, where he was briefly questioned before being detained in a cell overnight, but intentionally denied sleep. The same evening D was arrested, the homes of all six men were extensively—and unsuccessfully—searched for explosives and explosive material.

Following their transfer to the custody of the B Squad, three other members of the W(X, Y and Z) signed false confessions on 23 November. In these three further false statements obtained by the B Squad, X, Y and Z each falsely claimed to be members of the M; to have conspired with J to cause explosions prior to his death; and to have planted the bombs at the V and the U. As had been the case with X while detained at L police station, the three men later claimed that, before and during their transfer to G, officers had coerced them into signing these confessions through severe physical, psychological and emotional abuse. This mistreatment included beatings, deprivation of food and sleep, being subject to mock executions, intimidation, being burned with lit cigarettes, and being forced to stand or squat in various stress positions. In addition, each man had heard threats directed against their families. F and G both claimed they had been subject to the same mistreatment, and although both men had refused to sign false confessions, police later claimed that both men had verbally confessed their guilt. On 24 November, each man was initially charged with the murder of D, who had been killed in the K explosion. All six were remanded in custody at P Prison, and they were only assigned solicitors the following day.

Inside P Prison, all six men were subject to the same mistreatment at the hands of prison officers as they had endured at the hands of police, with one of the men losing four teeth in one assault. At a further court hearing on 28 November, each man was observed to have extensive facial injuries; an examination by a prison doctor revealed each man had received extensive injuries not only to their faces, but across their bodies. (Following an independent investigation into this mistreatment, the prosecution authority recommended that 14 prison warders be charged with assault. These men were suspended from duty in December nnn; all 14 were found not guilty of 90 separate charges of misconduct and assault on 15 July ppp."
 
Plod

Blimey

They followed some Brazilian sparky onto a train and **** the bloke

Woops it was the wro ng bloke

Excuse was duff radio and some plod taking a slash so did not ID him properly

Previously a case of mistaken ID resulted in some innocent bloke Steven waldorf being dragged out of a taxi pistol whipped and repeatedly shot

Oh well s*** happens
 
Yes but you are a mad right wing supporter.

You say all sorts of mad stuff

It wouldn't surprise me if you have fallen for QAnon and Gates Soros conspiracies

Comrade! You say all sorts of mad loony left stuff!

You've fallen for crazy theories like "borrow money to get out of debt" and "criminals are products of their environments". Mad!
 
Johnnny2007 is in favour of police having the freedom to knock suspects about to get a conviction.

Here's a description of one example where torture, brutality and false confessions were used so that guilty criminals escaped investigation, and random innocents were sentenced instead.

This practice led to convictions, but not to justice.


"Each man was ordered to change his clothes. A search of X's possessions revealed several cards printed in reference to Y. Upon discovering these cards, two officers led X into an adjacent room, where he was repeatedly punched, kicked and, later, burned with a lit cigarette by three officers as his arms were restrained by the two policemen who had escorted him into the room. Similar assaults were committed upon A, B, C and, to a lesser degree, D, the officers who administered these beatings took great care to avoid marking the men's faces.

At 12:55 on the afternoon of 22 November, while detained at z police station, X signed a confession admitting his involvement in the y bombings. This confession was extracted after X had been subjected to extreme physical and psychological abuse, which included repeated kicking in the stomach, head and legs, dragging by the hair, and the stretching of his scrotum.


False confessions
The five men were transferred to the custody of the B squad on the afternoon of 22 November. At 22:45 that evening, C was arrested at his home in x and driven to y police station, where he was briefly questioned before being detained in a cell overnight, but intentionally denied sleep. The same evening D was arrested, the homes of all six men were extensively—and unsuccessfully—searched for explosives and explosive material.

Following their transfer to the custody of the B Squad, three other members of the W(X, Y and Z) signed false confessions on 23 November. In these three further false statements obtained by the B Squad, X, Y and Z each falsely claimed to be members of the M; to have conspired with J to cause explosions prior to his death; and to have planted the bombs at the V and the U. As had been the case with X while detained at L police station, the three men later claimed that, before and during their transfer to G, officers had coerced them into signing these confessions through severe physical, psychological and emotional abuse. This mistreatment included beatings, deprivation of food and sleep, being subject to mock executions, intimidation, being burned with lit cigarettes, and being forced to stand or squat in various stress positions. In addition, each man had heard threats directed against their families. F and G both claimed they had been subject to the same mistreatment, and although both men had refused to sign false confessions, police later claimed that both men had verbally confessed their guilt. On 24 November, each man was initially charged with the murder of D, who had been killed in the K explosion. All six were remanded in custody at P Prison, and they were only assigned solicitors the following day.

Inside P Prison, all six men were subject to the same mistreatment at the hands of prison officers as they had endured at the hands of police, with one of the men losing four teeth in one assault. At a further court hearing on 28 November, each man was observed to have extensive facial injuries; an examination by a prison doctor revealed each man had received extensive injuries not only to their faces, but across their bodies. (Following an independent investigation into this mistreatment, the prosecution authority recommended that 14 prison warders be charged with assault. These men were suspended from duty in December nnn; all 14 were found not guilty of 90 separate charges of misconduct and assault on 15 July ppp."
This must be from gone years because now all arrests are filmed by bwc, all interviews cannot take place without a solicitor and all police stations have cctv and audio recording.
First thing when suspect arrives in custody he/she records the entry time and date by signing it.
Immediately after they can either speak to a duty solicitor which attends later or call their own.
They're locked in a secure cell, covered by cctv and audio recorder until solicitor arrives.
Then they're briefed by the solicitor in a secure room covered by cctv but not audio recorder.
They then sit the interview covered by audiovisual again.
The only place where they could be subjected to violence is the small toilet area in the cell or, in some nicks, the communal toilet which is locked from outside when the suspect is inside.
These places are too small for 4 officers beating a suspect and the immediate outside areas are covered by cctv anyway.
Audio will still be available in most cases.
So in other words you're talking boll@x.
 
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