Listed Building Consent refused - appeal or give up?

Discussion in 'Building Regulations and Planning Permission' started by qy206, 15 Oct 2013.

  1. qy206

    qy206

    Joined:
    15 Oct 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    So totally new to this forum and this is the first time I'm ever attempting to doing any refurbishments at all! :eek: Apologies for the long explanation... :oops:

    Bought a Grade II listed property earlier this year with my partner and we planned to do some internal renovations, namely make the downstairs open plan with a spiral staircase and add a bathroom upstairs. We were relatively confident that we'd get the permission as there was an almost identical flat on the same road that had managed to alter their layout in the same way.

    That was the plan anyway and we were so excited to do this as it's our first property together. We made the application and were told our decision would be communicated to us by 19th September.... Come 19th September, no news. :unsure: I ring the case officer and was informed that apparently another flat on the street had made a similar application and they wanted to wait to view that flat before they made a decision... We wait again. I call again on 4th Oct. Apparently English Heritage are delaying the application... Finally, today, almost 1 month after our original deadline, the case officer comes back with a refusal! :evil:

    Their excuse: apparently the stairs and walls on the lower floor are part of the original features of the property. The other flat who'd been granted permission had already been "significantly altered" at the time of the planning application.

    Now I find this hard to understand since at some point, these buildings were all houses and were later converted into separate flats. So how can these walls be part of the original features? It is also very frustrating to know that an identical flat achieved planning permission whereas we are being refused for almost identical works.

    We are considering appealing now but are a bit worried about the costs. We know that places like Savills are well-known but possibly very expensive. Can anyone offer advice on this?

    Also, I read that the appeals procedure caters for delayed applications. Will there be any leniency on our case given that we didn't hear back until almost 1 month after the deadline?

    Sorry again for the long post! It's just that we really don't have much experience with this if any (!!) so any help would be very very much appreciated!
     
  2. Sponsored Links
  3. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    19,959
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Location:
    Devon
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    As part of the application process (ie before you applied) the features that contributed to it becoming listed would have been made available and these should have been taken into account when talking to the conservation Officer in your pre-application talks. Or did none of that happen? its a waste of time talking to the planners when dealing with listed fellas as its the conservation officers who will pull the strings ultimately.
     
    • Thanks Thanks x 1
  4. clifford1

    clifford1

    Joined:
    9 Aug 2010
    Messages:
    263
    Thanks Received:
    15
    Location:
    Pembrokeshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    I think an original feature means present at the date of the listing, nothing to do with whether it is genuinely original to the property.

    We bought a derelict Victorian railway station from Network Rail. The asbestos roof added in about 1970 was deemed to be listed, and we were immediately served notice to replace the missing tiles. Twelve months later we finally got permission to replace the roof with genuine reclaimed slates.

    Self-important jobsworths relishing their power in my opinion :)
     
  5. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    19,959
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Location:
    Devon
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    As a wise old conservation officer told me many years ago, if you don't want the hassle involved in living in a listed building then don't buy it. Simples!
     
  6. qy206

    qy206

    Joined:
    15 Oct 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    No, I hadn't even realised I was supposed to speak to a conservation officer. Our draftsman didn't mention it and neither did the case officer who came to assess the property. From what the case officer said when he referred to "original features", it sounded like he was referring to the features that were present when the house was built... :eek: He kept muttering things about victorian servants living upstairs and needing stairs...

    Has anyone had much success of going to appeal? This property was short-lease and listed. The lease extension went through so smoothly we were almost shocked so I guess we're getting hit now... :cry:
     
  7. jeds

    jeds

    Joined:
    16 Apr 2004
    Messages:
    4,755
    Thanks Received:
    641
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    It's common for people to think only a facade is listed or only the main structure or whatever. I've even heard people (usually architects) in meetings say the so and so isn't listed because it's only grade ii. Well, they're wrong. If it's listed it's listed - every single flake of paint. And it doesn't matter if it's grade ii or I or whatever. Listing means exactly the same regardless of what class it is.

    Anyway, to answer the original question; why not do an appeal yourself. There's no fee so if you do it yourself it will only cost you your time. Look at the reasons for refusal and come up with the best answer you can for each. If they've said a wall is original and you can show otherwise then you'd have a reasonable case. If you can show that the original reason for listing has got lost over the years - due to alterations by others etc - then that can go in your favour as well. just put together the best case you can without going over the top and stick it in. What have you got to lose?
     
  8. rjm2k

    rjm2k

    Joined:
    30 Jan 2008
    Messages:
    2,126
    Thanks Received:
    163
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Short lease and listed? You like to live dangerously!
     
  9. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    19,959
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Location:
    Devon
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    And sack your draftsman for doing such a shoite job. And write him a nasty letter asking for a refund telling him he should have spoken with the CO before he ever put pen to paper.
     
  10. Sponsored Links
  11. rjm2k

    rjm2k

    Joined:
    30 Jan 2008
    Messages:
    2,126
    Thanks Received:
    163
    Location:
    Yorkshire
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Did you read your conveyancing pack? I would have thought the survey or an on the ball conveyancer would have mentioned the complexities of listed buildings.
     
  12. qy206

    qy206

    Joined:
    15 Oct 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    But we want our best shot at succeeding in appeal which is why we wanted to hire someone. We were thinking of Savills. Has anyone had much success with them in the past? We would be very grateful to hear anyone's experiences :oops:
     
  13. qy206

    qy206

    Joined:
    15 Oct 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Really? We have not been a big fan of him but he came recommended which is why we used him as he's helped people we know in the past... :cry:
     
  14. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    19,959
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Location:
    Devon
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    He's hardly helped you has he?
     
  15. qy206

    qy206

    Joined:
    15 Oct 2013
    Messages:
    8
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Location:
    London
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Are we likely to get anything back? Or are we just gonna p*ss him off in the process?...
     
  16. cjard

    cjard

    Joined:
    6 Sep 2008
    Messages:
    2,335
    Thanks Received:
    252
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Concerned he's going to come round an throw an egg at your window? What do you care if he's ****ed off? If it was a doctor you'd paid to fix your right knee and he cut your left leg off instead, would you sit back and say "i don't want to make troiuble because it might make him mad" ?
     
  17. freddiemercurystwin

    freddiemercurystwin

    Joined:
    21 Jan 2007
    Messages:
    19,959
    Thanks Received:
    2,223
    Location:
    Devon
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Maybe, maybe not. But then he should have been far more proactive, its not unreasonable to have expected him to liaise with the CO beforehand. Why should you have to pay for his poor advice and in view of that I would ask for a part refund. At the very least it should **** him off. How much contact did he make with planning/conservation officer after he submitted it?
     
Loading...

Share This Page