Loft conversion and Open plan - avoiding fire door and wall downstairs?

[jamphi24]

Hi
I am having a loft conversion and the building inspector has asked a wall and fire door to be installed installed in my downstairs area to separate the stairs as an exit.

I have attached a drawing and the red circle is where he is asking it be built. Also attached the first floor layout - loft stairs above main stairs.

Other measures going in are fire detectors throughout the property which is fine.
Is there a way around doing having to have the wall and fire door downstairs as don't want to block off the open plan feel?

Would it be possible to have fire escape windows on first floor instead for example?
Thanks for the help all.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Sprinklers

 

[bernardgreen]

Would it be possible to have fire escape windows on first floor instead for example?

Not much use as an escape route for people trapped in the loft by toxic smoke ( or fire ) on the stairs down to the first floor.

If every room in the loft had a safe escape route through windows then Building Control might consider relaxing the requirement for the separation of the stairs at ground floor level. Climbing out of a window onto a sloping roof is never a safe escape route.

 

[^woody^]

Who did the plans? Don't they know?

 

[jamphi24]

Would it be possible to have fire escape windows on first floor instead for example?

Not much use as an escape route for people trapped in the loft by toxic smoke ( or fire ) on the stairs down to the first floor.

If every room in the loft had a safe escape route through windows then Building Control might consider relaxing the requirement for the separation of the stairs at ground floor level. Climbing out of a window onto a sloping roof is never a safe escape route.

I meant all the first floor windows, not the 2nd floor that way those in the loft could escape through the first floor.

I guess sprinklers are a very expensive option.

 

[bernardgreen]

that way those in the loft could escape through the first floor.

To escape the people in the loft would have to come down one flight of stairs to get to a 1st floor room with a window through which they could be rescued. They would have to know which rooms had windows suitable for an escape and be able to find them in the dark and panic of escaping from a burning building.

If the stairs and first floor landing are filled with toxic smoke then getting down the stairs and finding the door to a room with a suitable window would be difficult.

Many people die from smoke inhalation on the stairs trying to find an escape route in the smoke.

 

[Nakajo]

As stated in a separate thread; Have a look at mist suppression systems. I've not used one, but they start at about £500 for a (very) basic installation. But check with your BCO if this is acceptable to them.

 

[bernardgreen]

Water mist added to the smoke from a fire may make it even harder to find the escape route

https://www.bre.co.uk/filelibrary/pdf/rpts/partb/water_mist_guide_v2.pdf

and from another "Commercial in Confidence" document

Without making the stairs a separate and closed compartment a water mist fire suppression is un-likely to be effective in protecting the escape route.

 

[^woody^]

Mist saturates flame, cools the air and reduces smoke.

 

[Daverobs]

I am in the process of converting my loft. My stairs exit in the lounge & I have had plans approved by the council using this system: http://www.plumis.co.uk/Fire-refurbishment-building-regulations.html

Hope this helps

 

[^woody^]

Hope this helps

Not if it's spam it doesn't.

 

[jamphi24]

I am in the process of converting my loft. My stairs exit in the lounge & I have had plans approved by the council using this system: http://www.plumis.co.uk/Fire-refurbishment-building-regulations.html

Hope this helps

Thanks for the link, any idea on rough price.

Thank you all for the other information.

Can I ask another question, say I put in a wall for the building reg sign off, if I then removed this would this effect my household insurance? (from a safety point of view I have the ability to escape from the loft through a juliet balcony- building regs may not agree but I know it possible). Also would it effect the house when I came to sell, would they know the wall been removed?
Not saying will do this 100% but just want to know all the options.
Thanks

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

would this effect my household insurance?

Totally, seeing as you potentially (physical dangers aside) allowed smoke/fire to damage far more of the property than it needed to.

 

[^woody^]

I have the ability to escape from the loft through a juliet balcony- building regs may not agree but I know it possible)

Yeah, lol, of course you know better. Go for it.

I'm sure the insurers won't mind paying out despite any fraudulent/false proposal, and any new owner would love to launch themselves off a second storey balcony just because you can, and building control are wrong.

 

[tombrumloft]

Yes it will void insurance. We have gone for the sprinkler system, you need to have this to avoid an extra corridor or changing the staircase round.