Loft conversion under PD, but roof tiles with PP ???

[Pete77]

I am having a hip-to-gable loft extension under PD rights. Drawings ready to send off for Certificate of Lawfulness.

However, when doing loft conversion I want my current roof tiles (see picture) changed back to the original style of tiles when house was built (so-called “Original Dwelling”) so that the roof exterior is again in keeping with the neighbours & rest of the street.

PD regulations state: “The materials used in any exterior work must be of a similar appearance to those on the exterior of the existing house.” So am wondering if my desired roof tiles would be covered by PD or instead require a planning application.

Hence, two main questions:

Q1: Would Council likely consider the two roof tile styles shown above to be sufficiently of similar appearance, thereby falling within PD? I have noticed several houses in the wider neighbourhood changing roof tiles WITHOUT planning permission, and not been served any Enforcement Notice. Does the council not care, or not know, or else consider such changes to be sufficiently "of a similar appearance"?

Q2: If proposed tiles are NOT similar enough, what is the best route forward? Should Planning Permission for changing the tiles be safely obtained before submitting PD Certificate of Lawfulness for the loft, or sought after having obtained the Certificate?

If seeking Planning Permission after getting Lawfulness Certificate, my architect believes that, for householder Planning applications, the council normally considers something that's “already built” bizarrely implying that the Loft build might need to be fully complete prior to registering the Planning application for the desired roof tiles. This would cost a fortune, as newly laid tiles on completed loft extension would (after just a few weeks) have to be removed and replaced with the desired roof tiles, once PP is successful. Makes more sense (logistically and economically) to combine the loft conversion and the new tiles in one single build. Hence my conundrum on best way forward.

Two further options:
- Just get the Certificate of Lawfulness and not bother mentioning the change in tiles to the Council, as it will not be on their radar, and thankfully the new tiles fit in with what the neighbours already have
- Pay good money (£200) for council's Pre Application advice service (thus putting it very much on their radar)

 

[tony1851]

Similar appearance generally refers to the colour of the original, so if your proposed tiles are red and your existing (ie previously-replaced tiles) are red or reddish-brown, you will be fine.
The rule is to prevent dormers being clad in totally unsympathetic materials such as white PVC shiplap cladding, roughcast or corrugated metal.
On the form, just write 'dormer finish to match existing roof' - nothing further.
(And save your money by not asking for a meeting. These meetings are usually with some office junior who reads from the same script you have read and you will come away none the wiser, but the Planning Department will have another £200 towards their Christmas party).

 

[Londoner2]

Certificate of Lawfulness under PD.

Why is this necessary?

 

[Loofah]

Certificate of Lawfulness under PD.

Why is this necessary?

Because councils and neighbours can be fussy awkward buggers and it helps head off any future challenges

 

[Loofah]

I am having a hip-to-gable loft extension under PD rights. Drawings ready to send off for Certificate of Lawfulness.

However, when doing loft conversion I want my current roof tiles (see picture) changed back to the original style of tiles when house was built (so-called “Original Dwelling”) so that the roof exterior is again in keeping with the neighbours & rest of the street.

View attachment 293439

PD regulations state: “The materials used in any exterior work must be of a similar appearance to those on the exterior of the existing house.” So am wondering if my desired roof tiles would be covered by PD or instead require a planning application.

Hence, two main questions:

Q1: Would Council likely consider the two roof tile styles shown above to be sufficiently of similar appearance, thereby falling within PD? I have noticed several houses in the wider neighbourhood changing roof tiles WITHOUT planning permission, and not been served any Enforcement Notice. Does the council not care, or not know, or else consider such changes to be sufficiently "of a similar appearance"?

Q2: If proposed tiles are NOT similar enough, what is the best route forward? Should Planning Permission for changing the tiles be safely obtained before submitting PD Certificate of Lawfulness for the loft, or sought after having obtained the Certificate?

If seeking Planning Permission after getting Lawfulness Certificate, my architect believes that, for householder Planning applications, the council normally considers something that's “already built” bizarrely implying that the Loft build might need to be fully complete prior to registering the Planning application for the desired roof tiles. This would cost a fortune, as newly laid tiles on completed loft extension would (after just a few weeks) have to be removed and replaced with the desired roof tiles, once PP is successful. Makes more sense (logistically and economically) to combine the loft conversion and the new tiles in one single build. Hence my conundrum on best way forward.

Two further options:
- Just get the Certificate of Lawfulness and not bother mentioning the change in tiles to the Council, as it will not be on their radar, and thankfully the new tiles fit in with what the neighbours already have
- Pay good money (£200) for council's Pre Application advice service (thus putting it very much on their radar)

I’d replace with the tiles matching the street and use retrospective pp in the very unlikely event it’s needed

 

[Pete77]

Similar appearance generally refers to the colour of the original, so if your proposed tiles are red and your existing (ie previously-replaced tiles) are red or reddish-brown, you will be fine.
The rule is to prevent dormers being clad in totally unsympathetic materials such as white PVC shiplap cladding, roughcast or corrugated metal.
On the form, just write 'dormer finish to match existing roof' - nothing further.
(And save your money by not asking for a meeting. These meetings are usually with some office junior who reads from the same script you have read and you will come away none the wiser, but the Planning Department will have another £200 towards their Christmas party).

Thanks Tony. I am not just adding a dormer, but want to change all tiles on the roof to be similar to the right hand tiles picture above.

I am not sure that "similar appearance" generally refers mainly to colour. GPDO states "The materials used in any exterior work must be of a similar appearance to those used in ... the existing dwellinghouse". That indicates to me that size/style of roof tiles could be a consideration as well as colour?

 

[mrrusty]

Because councils and neighbours can be fussy awkward buggers and it helps head off any future challenges

I'd say it depends. If you are fully confident what you are doing is PD, I wouldn't bother as you risk a response "in our opinion, this development blah blah" - it is very easy for an LA to make a negative opinion before the build. It is far more difficult, if something is only very slightly subjective, for the LA to go down an enforcement route with the hassle and risk they may lose. If it's solidly PD, there cannot be a challenge.

I have never sought a certificate of lawfulness or ever been asked for one in any house sale.