Measuring a new front door

[dazzler9000]

I'm hoping to purchase a new front door for my house. I'm after a Hormann thermo46 metal-framed composite front door.

I'm ordering it online as I don't have any installers nearby. Consequently, I'll have to measure it myself which makes me a little nervous as it will be a big expense if I get it wrong. I've pulled apart the current cloaking on the front door and have measured where the current hardwood frame sits (the UPVC one bolts to it), so I'm assuming this is where I want to measure from.

I'm guessing using the current measurements of the frame will be okay but what's the recommendation for measuring a door. Would you generally measure brick to brick and then take off 10-20mm?

My other concern is that the place that I might need to drill through the frame to fix to the wall might be where the outer bricks join the inner blocks. I'm wondering if this is why a hardwood frame had been used previously?

Do the frames generally let you fix to the wall in any position or is it always dead centre?

 

[dazzler9000]

Any advice? The wife is giving me grief about not ordering the front door

 

[johnny2007]

Don't know what that piece of timber is doing there, possibly a ready made door was fitted and packed with timber to fit the opening.
Anyhow, measure from brick to brick and leave 10mm play.
Measure the opening in several points, from top to bottom to make sure the gap is even, if not, take smallest measurement.

 

[dazzler9000]

Perfect thanks for that.

My other concern is the fact that you can bet your bottom dollar, my frame fixings will need to go through where the bricks join and where there is a slight void. Hopefully, I could bring the frame forward a bit or screw through the frame off centre but I don't know if this is advisable?

If not, any ideas what I could do there? Don't suppose I could fill that gap with any quick setting cement or maybe a chemical resin and then fix into that? I know this sounds a bit over the top but I've got no way of knowing how this will pan out until I ripped the front door off

 

[crank39]

Don't forget the frame extender for the hinge side if the door is to hinged next the wall, usually 20mm will suffice but depends how thick your existing plaster is

 

[dazzler9000]

Don't forget the frame extender for the hinge side if the door is to hinged next the wall, usually 20mm will suffice but depends how thick your existing plaster is

To be honest, I've given this no thought at all. Presumably, I can just fit a frame extender once I've got the door in place. Is this basically a piece of trim to finish the door and make good on the door reveal?

Any idea on filling my gap? This is my current frame extender.

 

[johnny2007]

You drill your fixings on a full brick.
Avoid mortar joints.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

With no disrespect, I'd suggest you do a fair bit more research before ordering and fitting the door. This evidently isn't something you know the basics of and, whilst sites like this are extremely good for advice, I'd hate to see you order a door that either doesn't fit or isn't installed correctly. Do the manufacturers offer measuring and installation instructions? Might be worth giving them a shout. Your wife will no doubt bend your ear even more if the door doesn't fit or is poorly installed

 

[dazzler9000]

With no disrespect, I'd suggest you do a fair bit more research before ordering and fitting the door. This evidently isn't something you know the basics of and, whilst sites like this are extremely good for advice, I'd hate to see you order a door that either doesn't fit or isn't installed correctly. Do the manufacturers offer measuring and installation instructions? Might be worth giving them a shout. Your wife will no doubt bend your ear even more if the door doesn't fit or is poorly installed

Thanks, I appreciate your advice. Believe it or not, I am a fairly competent DIYer. I've fitted the odd window before and hung loads of internal doors.

I will give the supplier a call tomorrow and check. I have measured many times and I even got the wife to measure, that way she can't blame me if it doesn't fit.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

Thanks, I appreciate your advice. Believe it or not, I am a fairly competent DIYer. I've fitted the odd window before and hung loads of internal doors.

I will give the supplier a call tomorrow and check. I have measured many times and I even got the wife to measure, that way she can't blame me if it doesn't fit.

They might offer something like this:

download-upvcdoormeasureguide.pdf (wdcdoorsdirect.co.uk)

 

[dazzler9000]

They might offer something like this:

download-upvcdoormeasureguide.pdf (wdcdoorsdirect.co.uk)

I'm too tired to concentrate now but clearly, I don't understand the concept of the frame extender. Hopefully, it will all become clear tomorrow.

Anyone fancy a trip to Southampton

 

[crank39]

Having a frame extender effectively means you bring the hinges away from the plaster, without one the hinges could foul the plaster thus not allowing the frame to be pushed right back without notching 3 holes in the plaster this would then mean the door would swing open to 90° and the hinges constant rub on the plaster.

Basically the easiest way to explain a frame extender is this; you measure your overall width say for this instance it's a single door and the overall width is 1000mm, you purposely make the door narrower than required say 980mm, this means the hinges will fall withing the plaster reveal inside, you then specify a 20mm frame extender and before you fit the frame you clip the extender to the hinge side and hey presto you have built your width back out to 1000mm, you can't have your door made to 1000mm without one and then decide when fitting to fit one because it'll now make the door frame 1020mm wide and it won't fit, this is why the survey form will ask does that width(1000mm) include a frame extender Y/N, if you click yes then they'll make the door at 980mm and supply an extender which builds it back out to 1000mm, selecting no means the door will be made to 1000m and they'll be no room to fit the extender as that'll make it 1020mm

What does the online survey form ask you, it should ask if a frame extender is required, then will give you the option of thickness, probably 10mm, 20mm or 50mm, if you say the width includes a 20mm extender then the manufacturer makes the calculation for you and makes the door to include the extender whichever size you chose

 

[dazzler9000]

Having a frame extender effectively means you bring the hinges away from the plaster, without one the hinges could foul the plaster thus not allowing the frame to be pushed right back without notching 3 holes in the plaster this would then mean the door would swing open to 90° and the hinges constant rub on the plaster.

Basically the easiest way to explain a frame extender is this; you measure your overall width say for this instance it's a single door and the overall width is 1000mm, you purposely make the door narrower than required say 980mm, this means the hinges will fall withing the plaster reveal inside, you then specify a 20mm frame extender and before you fit the frame you clip the extender to the hinge side and hey presto you have built your width back out to 1000mm, you can't have your door made to 1000mm without one and then decide when fitting to fit one because it'll now make the door frame 1020mm wide and it won't fit, this is why the survey form will ask does that width(1000mm) include a frame extender Y/N, if you click yes then they'll make the door at 980mm and supply an extender which builds it back out to 1000mm, selecting no means the door will be made to 1000m and they'll be no room to fit the extender as that'll make it 1020mm

What does the online survey form ask you, it should ask if a frame extender is required, then will give you the option of thickness, probably 10mm, 20mm or 50mm, if you say the width includes a 20mm extender then the manufacturer makes the calculation for you and makes the door to include the extender whichever size you chose

Thanks Crank, you've done a fantastic job of explaining that, I really appreciate you taking the time. This is a great forum!

So, onto my next question..... Do most doors that sit in the corner require a frame extender? I measured my current door and the hinges sit 40mm from the wall, I appreciate that my new door will be different so this isn't anything to go by but would you say that it's generally wise to add a 20mm frame extender to play it safe? Saying that, in most cases, wouldn't the door handle hit the wall before the hinges?

The online form didn't mention a frame extender but I will call the supplier and make a point of asking for one, once I decide what I need.

 

[dazzler9000]

Sorry, I realise this thread is going on a bit now but hopefully it may be useful for someone else anyway.

I've checked the Hormann Thermo46 manual https://cdn.hoermann-cloud.de/filea.../pdf/85828_Thermo65_46_EN_UK.pdf?v=1599738547 and can see that the frame is 45mm deep off the wall and the hinges look to be recessed, so in theory, shouldn't hit the wall? Due to this, I'm guessing I'd be okay without a frame extender.

 

[diy_fun_uk]

If you want to buy a configuration without a frame extender, you need to calculate what gap will be left (if any) between the finished interior wall and the edge of the hinge nearest the wall. See the red dot I've put in the plan view below, it's this space I'm referring to. If you calculate there will be a gap, even just a small one, then in theory no extender is required. However if the margins are tight, you might want to consider their 25mm extender to be on the safe side.