MoT test instruments: how accurate are they?

On diesel engines, adding water and methanol can increase power significantly especially if the engine is running higher than normal boost levels. Alcohol serves to cool the charge air extremely well and adds fuel that will only ignite when the engine starts its injection cycle. Apart from intake cleaning, water injection is many times more effective than intercooling to provide a dense charge air which has more oxygen content than warm air. It also pretty much eliminates NOX emissions but given most people using it have larger injectors fitted, that is not its actually purpose. It has to be carefully controlled to avoid damage though so using a proprietary system such as "Devils Own" or similar is essential. Ricers have tried rigging up the washer bottle to the inlet but that isn't advised!
On petrol engines, water injection allows much more advanced timing and higher boost pressure without detonation as well as the benefits mentioned for diesels.
 
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I'm a bit surprised that it eliminates NOx? Currently, most new diesels are lugging round about 5 gallons of AdBlue with them for that purpose. I doubt they'd be doing that if they could achieve the same effect with 5 gallons of water?
 
Yes, that has been my experience of them. The MOT smoke meter is a pretty "cheap and cheerful" tool for checking, but there would be something wrong with a DPF-equipped car if you got any kind of meaningful reading on an MOT smoke meter. In the type approval emissions test, they're down to counting individual numbers of soot particles these days! However, I'd have thought that they'd at least have CO and HC requirements to meet?
CO is about 50 times lower in diesel than petrol and HC about 30 times lower so I doubt they could be measured. NOX is much higher though as are particulates and as particulates are easy to measure using light, hence a smoke test is all that is required. The paradox is that EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) reduces NOX by reducing combustion temperature but it increases soot/smoke/particulates. On a diesel (but not a petrol) engine it also reduces efficiency. Some manufacturers are taking note of the problems caused by EGR and piping exhaust gas from after the particulate filter so that it doesn't clog the inlet. This has an added benefit of being cooler which reduces combustion temperature further more and hence even lower NOX. It take some getting your head around exhaust gases reducing combustion temperature but the purpose is to introduce an inert gas into the cylinder that causes a slower burn.
 
I'm a bit surprised that it eliminates NOx? Currently, most new diesels are lugging round about 5 gallons of AdBlue with them for that purpose. I doubt they'd be doing that if they could achieve the same effect with 5 gallons of water?
Totally different, SCR does nothing to prevent NOX being created, it is injected into the exhaust upstream of the DPF and a chemical process breaks down the NOX after it has left the engine. Adblue does not enter the engine or the intake.
Water injection would use much higher amounts of water (up to 50% in drag racing)which would have to be distilled to prevent limescale or damage from contamination, Adblue on the other hand uses a much lower does rate of around 2 - 5% verses fuel used. I think BMW experimented with water injection using waste water from the aircon system but given the amount required, it is not very user friendly for Joe Public in everyday cars.
 
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AdBlue 67.5% water 32.5% urea.
Injected downstream of engine into exhaust before SCR catalyst... So they say.
-0-
 
OK, that makes sense, thanks. However, I'd have thought (for the reasons mentioned above) that it would be OK on DPF-equipped diesels?
If you were to buy a proper kit, water injection has no real drawbacks, is safe on cars with a DPF, keeps the inlet clean (spotless in fact) and it lowers emissions. It also gives a safe and useful power increase especially if methanol is added.
 
AdBlue 67.5% water 32.5% urea.
Injected downstream of engine into exhaust before SCR catalyst... So they say.
-0-
The purpose of the water is as a carrier for the Urea, downstearm of the engine is upsteam of the DPF/SCR catalyst as mentioned
 
Saab used to have a Water Injection system as part of a power upgrade kit way back.
 
Taken from Wikipedia, looks like we might actually see some mainstream use of water injection soon, the benefits for emissions and economy are better than I thought...
"
A limited number of road vehicles with forced induction engines from manufacturers such as Chrysler have included water injection. The 1962 Oldsmobile F85 was delivered with the Fluid-Injection Jetfire[6] engine, which, incidentally, shares the title of "the world's first turbocharged road car" with the Corvair Spyder. Oldsmobile referred to the water/alcohol mixture as 'Turbo-Rocket Fluid'. Saab offered water injection for the Saab 99 Turbo. With the introduction of the intercooler the interest in water injection to prevent detonation almost disappeared, but recently water injection has also been of interest because it can potentially decrease nitrogen oxide (NO) and carbon monoxide (CO) emissions in exhaust. However the most common use of water injection today is in vehicles with high performance aftermarket forced induction systems (such as turbochargers or superchargers); such engines are commonly tuned with a narrower margin of safety from detonation and hence benefit greatly from the cooling effects of vaporized water.[citation needed]

In 2015 BMW has introduced a version of their high performance M4 coupe, the M4 GTS, that combines water injection with intercooling. The car was featured in the 2015 MotoGP season as the official safety car for the series and was released for the commercial market in 2016.[7] As per BMW example, current engine developments featuring water injection seem to concentrate on the effect of “Performance Improvement”. But by the mid 2020s, engine development will shift focus also on improved fuel consumption, due to the pressure on CO
2 emissions reduction
and related regulations.[8][9]

Bosch, which co-developed the technology with BMW, offers a water injection system named WaterBoost for other manufacturers. The company claims up to 5% increase in engine performance, up to 4% decrease in CO
2 emissions and up to 13% improvement in fuel economy.[10] Similar results[11] were published by FEVshowing up to 5,3% Fuel Efficiency improvement on 2,0L displacement petrol engine and even up to more than 7% in combination with cooled exhaust gas recirculation, depending of the drive cycle considered.

Water Injection and cooled exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) could be seen as competitive technologies: it has been demonstrated that at medium load a 40-50 % Water-to-Fuel Ratio (WFR) with Port Water Injection (PWI) has the same effect as an EGR-rate of 10%, which is seen as relatively limited even for petrol engines.[12]However, Water Injection has some benefits when compared to EGR, especially a better controllability as this is not a closed-loop as EGR, the timing of injection is not linked to other parameters as turbo charger backpressure, limited inertia (PWI timing not linked to engine operation) and combustion delay (as present with EGR). Additionally it does not deteriorate combustion stability significantly. The combustion delay linked to EGR dilution and the necessary adaption of the recirculated gas mass flow to the maximum turbocharger characteristics are typically two limiting parameters of the max. acceptable EGR rate. Therefore, some synergies can be developed when using Water Injection in area of the engine map where EGR is typically not possible (High Load / High Speed).

On-Board Water Generation[edit]
Surveys asking customers about their willingness to regularly fill up an additional operating fluid have demonstrated that the acceptance level is limited.[9] Therefore, the need for refilling is considered as one of the main barrier for the mass adoption of Water Injection. A key enabler is the development of on-board water generation system to run in close loop system, especially in order to guarantee consistent low level of emissions (engine CO
2 emissions to raise if run without water supply). Three major sources can be investigated:

  • Harvesting air humidity from ambient (e.g. by A/C condensate)
  • Surface Water (e.g. rain water collected from vehicle body)
  • Exhaust Gas Condensate
The first two variants are highly dependent on weather ambient conditions with sufficiently high humidity levels or driver habits (no A/C operation wanted). Consequently, an adequate supply of water cannot be ensured. On the contrary, condensing of water vapour formed during the combustion of gasoline is a reliable source of water: there is approximately a volume of 1L of water vapour in exhaust per each liter of gasoline fuel consumed. In October 2019, Hanon Systemstogether with FEV, presented an Audi TT Sport demonstrator equipped with port Water Injection operating in close systems thanks to an Hanon Systemsequipment called "Water Harvesting System".[13] The fully packageable system was able in the most critical cases tested to condensate more than 2 times the water consumed. The quality of the water condensates was presented as being good enough to avoid problems with injectors and potential corrosion issues were not detected during the extensive test drives. the condensates were shown as transparent, without strong odour and color.

Use in diesel[edit]
A 2016 study combined water injection with exhaust gas recirculation. Water was injected into the exhaust manifold of a diesel engine and, by opening the exhaust valve during the induction stroke, the injected water and some of the exhaust gas was drawn back into the cylinder. The effect was to reduce NOx emissions by up to 85% but at the cost of increased soot emissions.[14]"
 
CO is about 50 times lower in diesel than petrol and HC about 30 times lower so I doubt they could be measured.

I'm not sure the figures are that far different? The current EU 6 carbon monoxide limits for petrol are 1.0 g/km and for diesels. 0.5 g/km, so that's only a factor of 2. For HC, it's harder to measure because diesels get to add HC and NOx together, but broadly, they're about the same at 0.1 g/km.


NOX is much higher though as are particulates and as particulates are easy to measure using light, hence a smoke test is all that is required. The paradox is that EGR (exhaust gas recirculation) reduces NOX by reducing combustion temperature but it increases soot/smoke/particulates. On a diesel (but not a petrol) engine it also reduces efficiency. Some manufacturers are taking note of the problems caused by EGR and piping exhaust gas from after the particulate filter so that it doesn't clog the inlet. This has an added benefit of being cooler which reduces combustion temperature further more and hence even lower NOX. It take some getting your head around exhaust gases reducing combustion temperature but the purpose is to introduce an inert gas into the cylinder that causes a slower burn.

No, I'm cool (if you'll excuse the pun!) with that. The gas coming in through the EGR valve will never be hotter than what's in the combustion chamber. And, of course, any that goes into the cylinder will reduce the amount of oxygen available for combustion.
 
Totally different, SCR does nothing to prevent NOX being created, it is injected into the exhaust upstream of the DPF and a chemical process breaks down the NOX after it has left the engine. Adblue does not enter the engine or the intake.

Indeed, but if water injection was viable, they'd not bother with AdBlue. It doesn't really matter whether the technology chosen, prevents the formation of NOx in the first place, or allows it to be produced and then breaks it down in the exhaust. What matters, is what comes out of the tailpipe. If it was viable to do with water injection, why would a manufacturer spend money on an expensive SCR, AdBlue tank and dosing mechanism?


Water injection would use much higher amounts of water (up to 50% in drag racing)which would have to be distilled to prevent limescale or damage from contamination, Adblue on the other hand uses a much lower does rate of around 2 - 5% verses fuel used. I think BMW experimented with water injection using waste water from the aircon system but given the amount required, it is not very user friendly for Joe Public in everyday cars.

OK, so it's not viable...
 
If you were to buy a proper kit, water injection has no real drawbacks, is safe on cars with a DPF, keeps the inlet clean (spotless in fact) and it lowers emissions. It also gives a safe and useful power increase especially if methanol is added.

We've got wires crossed here. I was responding to Mottie's post about using an MOT gas analyser on a diesel. He was saying that a diesel would clog the filters on the gas analyser, and I was suggesting that I didn't think that would be the case on a DPF-equipped diesel, if the DPF was doing its job.
 
Last MOT our Opacity measurement was 0.1 iirc (can't remember the units), he double checked to make sure the probe was in the exhaust!.

All standard, one of the cleanest cars he'd had on the exhaust tester apparently.
 
I don't think so. My understanding is that the benefit comes from it cooling the incoming charge and making it more dense so you get more air and fuel mixture into the cylinder. You need a colossal amount of energy to split the hydrogen and oxygen atoms in water apart from each other (which is why it's good for putting fires out), so I don't think any extra energy comes from the water itself "burning" as such.

I didn't suggest 'burning', rather the waste heat in the cylinder turning the water mist into steam - operating rather like a steam engine. Water mist goes in the cylinder, turns to steam, the steam helps push the piston down as it expands.
 
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