MR WEARGAS-HOW REFRESHING !!!

[puzzbahh]

At last !
ive been pulling my hair out for weeks-look at corgi website,and it says"diy gas work could be dangerous and MAY be illegal".This is not the same as "diy work IS illegal"
this to me means-if you do install a boiler,and it is done WRONGLY-you could be prosecuted,if it is turned on.
however,if i stick to the manufacturers installation instructions,i should be within the law...
and if its wrong-mr weargas,who sounds as if he has many years of experience behind him,not a new kid on the block,with corgi registartion,will come to commission my boiler-and if he finds anything not to regs-he will simply say what work has to be done-and will not give me my completed benchmark until any faults are rectified.
i have spent hours looking not only on this site,but others,trying to get the simple facts that mr weargas has stated above.
i have posted a new thread on this site,and been told by corgi engineers that it is ILLEGAL for me to do exactly what mr weargas advises above.
if it is illegal,why hasnt corgi prosecuted mr weargas? if what these other corgi engineers say is true,not only is mr weargas breaking the law,he is also inciting others to do so-and i am sure they are aware of mr weargas's comments-i also agree with him fully-if this route is wrong,why can i go to a shed and buy a kit,or from a daily newspaper? they even gave me loads of advice at B+Q - so they to are inciting me to commit a "crime".
ive been researching air-conditioning for my home,and to buy the gas used,you have to produce the equivalent of a corgi card-so if they can do that,why not have mr weargas's suggestion-only people with corgi cards can buy kit.
as this country has a shortage of some 30,000 heating engineers,with more needed for the 250,000 houses that will need installing/service and repair,that the government is going to have built in the next 10 years,mr weargas approach is the correct one-give the intial advice,then come and check,and get faults sorted,then commission. why are you skilled gasmen fighting so hard to install rads and water pipe? ive seen people on this site say they would be happy to pay £200-300 for commissioning and testing.how long does that take? and what are the overheads/cashflow problems compared with installing heating systems? i would bet that mr weargas would agree that his commissioning for diyers is more profitable per hour than installing.
If there was a shortage of work for gasmen,i would understand,but again,i read posts of corgimen being booked 6 months ahead,with no advertising-that doesnt sound like a bad position to be in !
i hope that more corgi engineers take mr weargas's enlightened approach-its obvious that he isnt doing anything illegal,and as he states,he finds loads of botched jobs-so he can sleep well at night knowing he has made people bring their systems to regs,and therefore safe-what it must feel like to read of someones family blown up because they had a friend put a system in,simply because they couldnt afford the charges that corgi companies charge due to their monoply position,and to have been an engineer who refused to commision and test the boiler,is impossible to imagine,but i imagine it has,and most certainly will whilst people refuse to do what mr weargas has proven is quite acceptable to all parties involved.
some of the reasons given was that they didnt want responsibility for a system they didnt install-but im sure mr weargas stresses that he is not responsible for their system-that he is only setting up the boiler in accordance with manufacturers instructions,and testing the gas supply and gas pipework for integrity.if the system then plays up,he can take on the work,if he wishes,or simply say that they will have to get whoever installed the system back out.i can see no difference between this and a diy air-conditioning system i have been looking at-if i install it wrong,and then get an air-con engineer to commission and test it,if it doesnt work,im not going to blame him for my faulty work.i would ask him to fix it-just like all the other diy things that people do wrong.
it would be great for someone to do a study of how many people would get heating installed,if they could lower the cost by diying or getting a "subby" in effect,to fit it-im sure thousands are put off by the "you cant do that,its illegal" statements.
thanks,mr.weargas,more power to you-you should put your address on your profile-you would probably be inundated with diyers and self builders wanting to be legal.

i forgot to mention that alan e has also posted that he too is happy to work with diyers-yet another enlightened engineer who hasnt been locked up-i havent checked his profile,but he too,should let us diyers know where he is-im sure there will be people visiting this site who will want the services of mr weargas and alan.

 

[oilman]

Am I bashing my head against a brick wall? It certainly feels like it.

There is nothing illegal about DIYers fitting their own heating systems, but nice as they are, weargas and AlanE can no more certify someone elses work legally than I can. THEY CAN SELF CERTIFY THEIR OWN WORK.

For the third party certification DIYers have to get this from the building control department., because heating systems, like windows and doors are now classed as controlled services under part L of the building regs of 1997 and subsequently made criminal law in April 2002.

DIYers can install their own, but they must tell the building control department first, and they will issue the certificate when it's finished and correct then you can have it comissioned by weargas or AlanE, (but not me as I ain't gas .

 

[AlanE]

'Am I bashing my head against a brick wall? It certainly feels like it.' I think you are!

I don't remember EVER saying that I would certificate, certify (or what ever other words might be used). I will comission a gas or oil boiler ONLY AFTER client has obtained necessary certificate from building regs dept at local town hall AND provided I am aware of installation first.

This is simply so I can aquaint customer of requirements.

If a customer phones me up out of the blue to comission an appliance the answer is NO.

Alan

 

[oilman]

AlanE . I wasn't having a go at you or weargas. There is a problem the DIYers have that they don't, or won't, speak to building control when doing work classed as controlled services. If they did, most of their procedure problems would go away, because they can have the certificate they need, and they could ask you to commission it, (as you point out, but DIYers seem to misinterpret).

 

[puzzbahh]

thanks oilman,
no-you arent banging your head against a wall-what i am saying,is that when i first enquired HOW to legally self-install,then have gas supply fitted and boiler tested and commissioned,i was told this was impossible,by a number of people-when,in fact,as you say,by using building control to certify, i CAN in fact,do exactly that.
i actually went through the 40 odd pages on one of the strings concerning this area,and i think you will find literally dozens of corgi engineers stating quite emphatically that it cant be done,when both you, alan e,and mr weargas have shown me that it can be done-so why are these engineers stating it cant be? if i had been given this advice to my initial query,i wouldnt have to have trawled throught 40 odd pages to find the truth.
as for alan e last point- i will be doing exactly as he suggests- that is,get an engineer like himself to intially check that im siting the boiler in not only the best location for the house and system,but also to ensure that i have not overlooke anything that may not be in the manufacturers manual.
i will then contact building control,to get everything ok'd by them,then install to the engineers/manufacturers spec,and then,finally ask the engineer to return to fit gas supply,test the boiler and commission it-and i will not,as some earlier posts,expect him to be responsible for either a boiler fault,or a system fault.
oilman,alan e,mr weargas-dont you think it would be easy for corgi to have a page clarifying this-it would not only steer the 20,000+ self-builders ,a large proportion of whom do a lot of hands on work and god knows how many diyers, to a safe installation,with all the regs complied with,ratherr than wasting your time on this site,answering what is in effect,an easy question. i also imagine you have had innumerable calls to your businesses on the same subject-maybe diynot can put an addition on its boilers posting to clarify this?
thanks to all you patient gents for spending your valuable time responding to my posts-maybe corgi will get its act together and make its site of some use to self-builders,diyers-the number of e mails i got from them not offering your straightforward advice, but bullsh*t like "please look at regs 47,31b 999 paras 1-32" and useless phrases on their site such as "diy work can be dangerous AND illegal" -that applies to repairs to my car,and countless other things- thats why i went to their site-to find out how to do as much of an installation as is legal,what is required(eg;building control,intial survey and info from one of their members-they could then have a link to a list of engineers happy to do this-free marketing for you) and what must not be done by a diyer.
maybe on your corgi members restricted area they have a feedback/suggestions page?
thanks to all-and to all you diyers and self-builders-you have the info,so for gods sake,dont use cowboys...