MR16 halogen to LED

[william910]

Bit of a stupid question, I got a kitchen/dinner with about 20 of MR16 halogen which each one have individual transformer (20W-60W)

Now I would like to change to LED but I had a look online and they said that I need to change the transformer as well but I also saw some sales site saying that the new generations one don't need to change the transformer.
is it true? or should I just revert back to GU10 which a lot of people said it is much easier.

sorry about bit stupid questions as I am not in LEDs.

Many thanks,

 

[333rocky333]

There are certain makes that somehow fool the transformer into thinking they are higher load, thus enabling you to exceed the 20watt minimum load of your transformers, they are not cheap though.
Philips make some and no doubt other brands are available

 

[william910]

There are certain makes that somehow fool the transformer into thinking they are higher load, thus enabling you to exceed the 20watt minimum load of your transformers, they are not cheap though.
Philips make some and no doubt other brands are available

Is that mean I need to try and error?

I had a look on ebay for philips mr16 LED but didnt see which one will work or not, will anyone have experience on this?

many thanks

 

[333rocky333]

Just a case of checking the makers spec really, a lot of the cheaper ones wont function right as there wattage will be too low.

you may be better specifically looking at GU5.3 leds, as MR16 is the lens and will throw up many lamps mainly GU10 ones

 

[william910]

thanks 333rocky333

after reading the Philips led page I think the Philips Master LED Spot will work on existing transformer.

now I need to buy one and test and if it works then I need 20. lol

 

[ericmark]

Although Philips LED spots may work at some point some one will change it for another make and it will fail.

I have by luck got a toroidal transformer supplying my ELV lamps so in theroy should be able to use LED's without a problem so replaced the tungsten with cheap LED's which worked for a time but then failed.

I can't say why they failed but having a peak voltage of 17 volt likely did not help. Yes RMS voltage is 12 but peak is 17.

If lamps cost £1 each then one takes a chance but where lamps cost £5 each so 20 cost £100 is it really worth taking a chance.

There are three ways you could go.
1) Use one power supply for 3 or 4 lamps but still have the 17 volt peak problem.
2) Swap power supply type and use 12VDC instead.
3) Use GU10 lamps and get rid of the transformers.

The idea of the transformer was to give the quartz lamp a very controlled amount of power as both too low and too high would reduce bulb life. However with a typical 230 volt LED the voltage is 180 - 250 volt AC so there is no need to ensure a very well regulated voltage.

So what it comes down to is cable used and is the cable suitable for 230 volt lights or easy to replace. If you can use 230vac lights that must be the best option.

 

[william910]

Eric,

I dont understand what you mean by some one will change it for another make and it will fail? you mean that if the bulb is change to another make and it will fail?

I did think to change to GU10 but 20+ bulb will take me forever to get it done as it needs to be done one by one. (transformer on each) hence i just see if there are any bulb will do a straight swap

 

[winston1]

Once again we have this confusion by manufacturers and posters calling switch mode drivers transformers. The 20 to 60w drivers you have will not work with LEDs.
A true transformer will, I would use 2 50w toroidal types each feeding 10 LEDs. Don't see why the 17v peak should be a problem, surely it's the RMS that is important. After all the mains is about 350v peak and that never causes a problem.

If you are really worried get proper LED drivers or use 240v LEDs.

 

[william910]

Once again we have this confusion by manufacturers and posters calling switch mode drivers transformers. The 20 to 60w drivers you have will not work with LEDs.
A true transformer will, I would use 2 50w toroidal types each feeding 10 LEDs. Don't see why the 17v peak should be a problem, surely it's the RMS that is important. After all the mains is about 350v peak and that never causes a problem.

If you are really worried get proper LED drivers or use 240v LEDs.

So will it work or not? I am confused now.....

 

[winston1]

Once again we have this confusion by manufacturers and posters calling switch mode drivers transformers. The 20 to 60w drivers you have will not work with LEDs.
A true transformer will, I would use 2 50w toroidal types each feeding 10 LEDs. Don't see why the 17v peak should be a problem, surely it's the RMS that is important. After all the mains is about 350v peak and that never causes a problem.

If you are really worried get proper LED drivers or use 240v LEDs.

So will it work or not? I am confused now.....

The drivers you have got now won't work.

LED drivers will.

Toroidal transformers will.

240 volt LEDs will.

 

[ericmark]

Once again we have this confusion by manufacturers and posters calling switch mode drivers transformers. The 20 to 60w drivers you have will not work with LEDs.
A true transformer will, I would use 2 50w toroidal types each feeding 10 LEDs. Don't see why the 17v peak should be a problem, surely it's the RMS that is important. After all the mains is about 350v peak and that never causes a problem.

If you are really worried get proper LED drivers or use 240v LEDs.

In the main I would agree with you but Philips have made a special they claim will work on the standard switched mode power supplies.

I have only read reports never used them.

Personally I would change to 230vac. I have bought a pack of 3 x 2W LED's in GU10 package for £10 and was very impressed from local B&M supermarket. It is all down to price and although you can send off for lamps which are cheaper when one blows you want a replacement now not in 5 days time and so I would use what I can get local.

So 10 lamps from one electronic unit or change to 230 volt. 40W of LED lighting is a lot of light. (20 x 2W) My living room has 30W (10 x 3W) and is far brighter than before (10 x 8W CFL) my bedroom reading lamps are A1 with LED as I can move them without burning my hand. Mothers wet room has 3 x 2W lamps and again loads of light but main thing never had to renew any.

 

[333rocky333]

william 910
all you really ned to know is you have electronic transformers, forget torroidal ones you dont have them and no one in the lighting industry calls them smps even if they are.

Certain lamps will 100% work with what you have and a major pub chain is doing what you propose and 99% of the lamps have worked fine and the suppliers are prepared to replace free of charge they are that confident,
lighting and transformer makers are spending millions in research to get this right as the demise of 50 watt lamps is imminent.

http://www.ledbenchmark.com/faq/Transformers-Output-and-Compatibility.html

As i say philips seems to be at the forefront and worth reading up about there TRANSFORMAX lamps and technology.
I am not connected to eithe philips or this mob but check a firm called downlights direct, they may be able to advise you more and there lamps look a good price

 

[333rocky333]

So will it work or not? I am confused now.....

Well done winston,

 

[william910]

this might be helpful for someone

http://www.lighting.philips.co.uk/pwc_li/gb_en/connect/tools_literature/master_ledlamps2013.pdf

page 18-19

i might give this a try if it doesnt work then i might go to GU 10 route.

just found out i got more than 20 its actually 25

 

[william910]

update:

bought a box of 10 PHILIPS MASTER LED MAS LEDspotLV D 7-35W MR16 WW 24D and it does not work....

it only on for half of second then it went off again.

I think I need to sell those and go to the GU10 route.