My Bathroom Project

[saint1d]

I may as well start a new project thread here, already asked a couple of questions relating to the new bath we got, but I can see a few more queries popping up!

I decided last month to get a shower to attach to the bath taps. We ordered the new bath, new mixer tap and basin taps. The idea at first was to tile around the bath, but we then thought doing the whole room would look better. After we bought more tiles for the walls we thought about doing the floor as well. Another trip was made to the tile wholesaler. What did we decide a few days later? Lets tile the side of the bath too, so off we went again for the 4th time in a week to buy more tiles.

Fitting the bath was a pain in the rear, the waste trap kept leaking, but I think it's now sorted as it hasn't let any water out since I refitted it last night (touch wood).

The tiles are going on a treat. They are quite large @ 30x45cm and we have staggered them and I think they look great. Just taking our time with them and trying to be as accurate as possible. I've tiled up to the ceiling now and just starting on the row around the bath, but the side of the bath is becoming a bit of a headache.

I realise I will need to build a timber frame which is simple enough, but I'm not sure what to do with the end of the bath as it's approx 9" shorter than the width of the room. The previous bath had this area boxed in, and where the tiles met the rounded corner of the bath the builder had filled the hole with silicone. I always thought this looked untidy so I want to avoid it. I thought about cutting the lip at the rear of the bath so that I could make a panel that would go "through" the bath right up to the wall?

I'm not sure how else to explain and hope it makes sense!

Can anyone offer some advice from previous experience? All help and suggestions appreciated.

So far I'm well chuffed with myself considering I'm pretty much a diy novice, I'll post up some photos when it's done.

 

[Richard C]

What adhesive did you use for those large tiles? Not tub readymix I hope! What type are the tiles, ceramic, porcelain, stone? What are the walls made of, especially in “wet areas”? What type of grout? Are you making a bath panel? If so you need to use a dimensionally stable material (tile backer board) not plasterboard, MDF or plywood. What’s the floor made of, concrete or suspended timber? What preparation did you do before tiling? What adhesive & grout on the floor?

I would suggest you read the tiling Forum Sticky & Forum archive posts before buying any more materials or doing any more work to avoid making catastrophic & expensive mistakes which will almost certainly reduce the life of your new bathroom project.

 

[saint1d]

We opted for a waterproof readymixed porcelain wall adhesive as recommended by the tiler at the wholsesaler, it's Sovereign Gold Star. I queried this after reading the sticky thread but he dismissed it saying that he has never had a problem with it as it's not a cheapy.

The walls are plasterboard and are perfectly flat. We had to trim off some plaster from the corners in a couple of places, and the same for where they meet the ceiling, but very little was needed.

The floor is Weyroc, I'm planning to fix a plywood sheet down first. The floor adhesive is powedered flexible floor adhesive.

The house is only 4yrs old so all is in good order. I have done a better job of installing the new bath than the one that I took out. The feet weren't tightened up properly and not screwed down to the floor!

I've only just started to look into the side panel so wasnt sure what to make it of. Yes I had been thinking of sealing an mdf panel, but the backer board sounds like a good idea, thanks for the advice

Since posting my original thread I've had a thought on how to do the end of the bath....rather than tile over the end would it not be better to tile under the lip of the bath the run some sealant along the edge? Actually I should't take credit for that, my wife had a bit of a brainwave lol

 

[Richard C]

We opted for a waterproof readymixed porcelain wall adhesive as recommended by the tiler at the wholsesaler, it's Sovereign Gold Star. I queried this after reading the sticky thread but he dismissed it saying that he has never had a problem with it as it's not a cheapy.

I use BAL products exclusively & have no experience with Sovereign. I’ve no doubt it’s good as far as tub adhesive goes but you should be using a powder cement addy on tiles that size which is chemical cure. The problem is that tub mix is water based, & relies on evaporative cure & the only place that moisture can escape is through the gaps in the tiles. When used on large format tiles, the addy can take forever to set & in some cases it’s never set & tiles have subsequently fallen off the wall; a fair few examples in the Forum Archive.

The walls are plasterboard and are perfectly flat. We had to trim off some plaster from the corners in a couple of places, and the same for where they meet the ceiling, but very little was needed.

Plasterboard in good condition has a maximum tile weight of 32 kg/sqm; if it’s also plaster skimmed, the tile weight reduces to just 20 kg/sq/m & that includes adhesive which can up to 4 kg/sqm; what are the weight of your tiles? Additionally you should not use plasterboard (even MR) in wet areas unless it’s tanked. Unles it's an expensive epoxy based product, waterproof adhesive/grout is only waterproof in the sense it won’t disintegrate when wet, it’s still permeable & if moisture gets through to the PB it will turn to mush; this is probably the single biggest cause of early tile failure & why it’s important that your tile base is waterproof, not just the addy/grout; they all are in the sense I describe. Always best to use waterproof tile backer boards in wet areas.

The floor is Weyroc, I'm planning to fix a plywood sheet down first. The floor adhesive is powedered flexible floor adhesive.

Weyroc is a better base than basic chip but not much. For ply overboard you should be using a minimum of 12mm WBP, screwed every 150mm into the joists not just into the top of the main flooring; check first for pipes & cables. Rather than overboard, I always prefer to rip out replace cheap flooring with 18-25mm WBP. Seal the back & edges of the ply with an SBR or acrylic sealer, do not seal the tile face unless the addy manufacturer recommends it, most don’t. Another alternative is to overboard with a proprietary waterproof tile backer board such as Marmox or Hardibacker. What brand is the adhesive/grout you intend using?

 

[saint1d]

The plasterboards aren't skimmed, which going off what you have just said is a good thing! I'm not sure of the weight of a box as dont have any scales, it feels a bit heavier than 25kg. One box covers 1.35 sqm so again from what you have said I'd think they are pretty much on the limit. I'm intrigued now and will have to find out.

Again the grout is Sovereign, anti-mould, waterproof stuff.

I understand why you would recommend waterproof back board, I wish i'd found that out before I started I thinnk it will be wise for me to keep an eye on this in the future and check for any sign of tiles loosening.

From what you have said I think a waterproof overboard will be the best bet for me. The floor adhesive is Sovereign Porcelflex.

Thanks for your input

 

[saint1d]

Well the wall tiles are on now and just got the grout done on one of the walls last night, looks great, will get the rest grouted today. Need to mount the towel warmer/radiator, then remove it to grout that area too and tile around where the pipes come out the wall.

The bath waste isnt leaking now, took back the exspensive one we bought and replaced it with a cheaper one from Pumbcenter. Touch wood it's now fine, it's been a right pain in the rear.

Will start on the floor tomorrow. The floor isnt weyroc, it a very thick chipboard type floor which has a waterproof membrane on top of it so thats good news.

 

[Richard C]

Will start on the floor tomorrow. The floor isnt weyroc, it a very thick chipboard type floor which has a waterproof membrane on top of it so thats good news.

Chipboard is far from good news & is the worst possible tile base you can get & I advise you replace it; either that or overboard with either 12mm WBP ply screwed through into the joists or use waterproof tile backer board. Read my previous post.

If it’s green in colour it’s MR chip & hasn’t got a waterproof membrane, it’s just impregnated & water resistant but it’s still crap. Be warned that tiling over chipboard even using latex based adhesive (expensive) is a huge risk & it will most likely fail in a very short time.

 

[saint1d]

The floor isn't gree its blue. I'm sure it's chipboard but it has a rubberised finish on top which is a couple of mm thick. When water leaked out of the waste it didnt go anywhere, it just sat on top of the floor for several hours overnight until I mopped it in the morning.

 

[Richard C]

God knows what it is but if you can’t say, it’s impossible to advise. If it has a rubberised coating on it 2/3mm thick you can’t tile onto that either it will definitely fail; I’m not even sure if over boarding will work either, the tile base has to be rigid not flexible.

 

[tictic]

The floor isn't gree its blue. I'm sure it's chipboard but it has a rubberised finish on top which is a couple of mm thick. When water leaked out of the waste it didnt go anywhere, it just sat on top of the floor for several hours overnight until I mopped it in the morning.

you sure its not a protective film its over it..this is usually peeled off after installation of floor(but most biulders/chippies dont bother to remove it)...

as for your other posts you put in the word "waterproof" quite often....sorry to be the bearer of bad news ere... but the adhesive and grout you have used is not "waterproof" ...it may say that on the side off the tub(which you should not have used for them tiles and the size off them...the guy that told you that..is talking out his a4rse)..call the mfr and ask them???..

 

[saint1d]

I'm going to buy some WBP today. Would it be better to lay it as one sheet or to lay it in strips?

The blue coating on the floor is painted on, it definately not a protective film.

I realise the grout and adhesive isnt "water proof", the only reason I have stated that so often is I was asked what we had used, and that is what is written on the packet.

 

[Richard C]

So are you over boarding or replacing the floor? As I said previously, I would not advise to overboard the “blue coating” if it’s 2/3mm thick & is flexibly; it will reduce the rigidity of the overboard & your tiles could fail.

Always board out as large as you possible can, cutting will reduce overall rigidity. Support boards ½ way over a joist & any unsupported cut edges must be supported with noggins; the two unsupported perimeter walls won’t usually require noggins unless over a door threshold or the area is subject to loading. Don’t forget to seal the back & edges.

The thing to be aware of is that apart from expensive epoxy products, “waterproof” in this sense means that the addy/grout wont dissolve when it gets wet, it’s not impervious to water which is why it’s essential your tile base is waterproof in wet areas.

 

[saint1d]

nah going to overboard. I think I got carried away by saying a couple of mm rubbery finish, it just like a painted finish on top of weyroc, it's not at all flexible. I dont plan on having the floor getting saturated.

Will get myself along to the builders merchant this afternoon to see what sizes they have, was in B&Q at the weekend and I would need 3 sheets of theirs to cover my floor.

Unfortuntaley it is too late for me to waterproof the walls, I wish I had started this thread before I started the tiles, but hey you live and learn I guess. Just hope I dont learn the hard way on this one! I know it isnt at all suitable, but the walls were painted with bathroom paint which was good at repelling water, so fingers crossed that will offer a "little" protection.

I have a moisture meter and industrial drying equipment in my garage, I will check on the walls from time to time and if I detect moisture all I can do is blast dry air behind the plasterboard to try and keep them as dry as possible.

As I said, wish I'd started this thread a few weeks ago...