My living room AV install. Work in progress with pics.

[salem2000]

I agree with you "ninebob"

I say bad pratice, as power cables with signal cables.

As I understand it prior to Part P, IEE regulations were recommended standards, not law, and I was advised of that fact by the IEE themselves. I cant see a problem.

The install looks great by the way. "muffking" what is the colour/brand on the chimny breast.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

BAN

why is this install illegal? If completed prior to part P.

Bad pratice yes, but not illegal.

Salem.

You're right - my apologies - I didn't pay close enough attention to the dates....

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I still don't see what's wrong with it at all.

I take on board ban's comment that the vertical run does not start at the socket, but am assuming there is a plate at the point of entry similar to the one behind the mounting point of the TV, therefore both are "accessories" in their own right.

Now take this picture, for example:
http://imagehost.darkernet.co.uk/i/diagram.JPG
The regs state that unprotected cable runs must go horizontally or vertically from an accessory.

I don't think that means a series of both horizontal AND vertical runs..

No mention is made that this can only be between accessories,

522-06-06:

Where the cable is connected to
a point, accessory or switchgear on any surface of the wall or
partition, the cable may be installed in a zone either
horizontally or vertically, to the point, accessory or switchgear.

what if these in question were the only ones in the room, they'd have to be fed from somewhere. Therefore the red and blue lines in my drawing are all acceptable runs for unprotected cable from those accessories.

Agreed.

There is therefore nothing wrong with the route (shown in yellow) which muffking has chosen.

I'm not so sure - he's got more than one change of direction as it wraps around the chimney breast. It seems to go against the spirit of the regulation, and could therefore be argued unsafe...

 

[muffking]

Salem: it's Focus Hazelnut Crunch one coat. Comes in the tin like chocolate mouse hmmmm......

Again, no very little about the regs so I'll let you guys debate it, but I appreciate what you're saying about bunching a mains lead with the video cables though. At the time there seemed little point in chasing another route for the mains lead, although it's filtered at both ends.
Well spotted with the backing boxes BTW. They are at both ends, the channel which carries all the way to the ceiling in one of the early pictures insedentally, is just for an S-Video cable for the projector. So when you say it wraps around the chimney breast I think you mean that it doubles back on itself? which it doesn't. All of the cables to the cimney breast are one way only.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So when you say it wraps around the chimney breast I think you mean that it doubles back on itself? which it doesn't. All of the cables to the cimney breast are one way only.

No - that isn't what I meant. The cable route runs vertically from the floor, then turns a right-angle towards the chimney breast, then turns a right-angle and runs along the side of the chimney breast, then turns a right-angle and runs along the front of the chimney breast.

I appreciate what you're saying about bunching a mains lead with the video cables though. At the time there seemed little point in chasing another route for the mains lead, although it's filtered at both ends.

It's nothing to do with filtering, the regulations prohibit Band I (ELV, telecoms, signalling, audio, video etc) cables from sharing enclosures with Band II (all other voltages used in electrical installations) unless every cable is insulated for the highest voltage present.

So unless the insulation on your AV cables is rated at 230/400V that's another regulation you've broken and more potential danger you have created.

Again, no very little about the regs

Why did you think you should do electrical work without knowing what the regulations were?

 

[muffking]

Because it's my house and I can do what I want and if I didn't think it was safe then I wouildn't have done it.

 

[muffking]

One quick question though. With all of the plasma installs being fitted to chimney breasts, how would you have routed any cables to the face of the chimney breast without being able to round the side of it? or as you say, right and right again.

 

[dabaldie]

Because it's my house and I can do what I want

unfortunatley not these days..

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Because it's my house and I can do what I want and if I didn't think it was safe then I wouildn't have done it.

As dabaldie has pointed out, no you can't. But in any event you didn't know what was safe and what wasn't because you didn't take the trouble to acquire the necessary knowledge, and as a result you've done things which are probably not safe.

One quick question though. With all of the plasma installs being fitted to chimney breasts, how would you have routed any cables to the face of the chimney breast without being able to round the side of it? or as you say, right and right again.

Vertically from the ceiling or buried deep enough or with proper mechanical protection.

I would also have run the power cables in a separate enclosure from the AV. In fact, it's only the route of the power cable which is the real issue - maybe the answer would be to have that drop vertically down the wall but still have the signal cables running around the walls as they currently do.

 

[AdamW]

The differences in the way I would have done it:

1) instead of routing the moulded power cable through the wall, I would have installed an FCU with flex outlet next to your signal outlet plate. I would then have wired the plasma end of the power cable (presumably an IEC connector) into this, with 18" or so of cable (to allow connection)

2) I would have run the cable for this socket from the ceiling, unless your ring main is run under the floorboards in which case I would have used metal conduit to run the cable up your wall in a dog-leg.

3) I would have run the signal cables in metal conduit regardless: I suspect you have several hundred quidsworth of cables in there, replacing them would be pricey if a well-intentioned wife bangs a nail or drills a hole through them. Also it will aid in shielding from other cables.

I am not sure that it is particularly dangerous in the fashion you have done it. However, it isn't idiot-proof, which is often more important. The next owners of the house, presuming they hang a plasma there and use your cables, will be pretty miffed if they drill through the cables and find their TV doesn't work!

There are far worse things you could have done!!!

Why the delay in fitting the plasma? Or is that the job for this weekend?

 

[muffking]

I like the idea of running the power cable from the ceiling as that could be tapped from the mains under floor boards on the 1st floor.
Like you say though, the power cable seems to be the only issue, but it could be chopped off at both ends so it would appear as if the lead was never there.

Adam: The Plasma is in the kitchen/dinner as the most used room at the mo, but will eventaully be promoted to the lounge. I see your point about if anyone were to wipe out the mains lead stopping the TV from powering up, but the same could be said for the video cables as a simple nail through the RF lead when hanging a picture would put pay to using the TV's built in tuners. But like BAN says, there's nothing to stop a mains cable from being capped vertically from behind the TV to the 1st floor.

 

[ninebob]

So how to go forward? My opinion is that what you have is not dangerous as long as you own the house and you know what's there.

If in a couple of years time you choose to redecorate, perhaps it would be wise to leave the AV cables where they are, but take a spur from the upstairs ring and take the power vertically down to an FCU. Any future owners would therefore not be able to say you were in breach of regs.

As I said, however, my personal opinion is that there is nothing horribly wrong with what you have done - and the room looks fab, by the way. Make sure you post another pic when the plasma is up!

 

[salem2000]

lets face it now its done are you going to pull it out? No! Nor would I.

Are the lecky Police going to do anything. No. Because they can't.

Why? because it's pre Part P. ok a few regs have been side-tracked, but at the time it was not law, and as such not enforcable. I was advised by the IEE "our regulations are not covered by legislation so are not enforcable under UK law". The only time that this may crop up is in the event of a claim on insurance or an accident happens.

And thanks for the info "muffking"

Salem.

 

[muffking]

I think you've both summed it up nicely. If/when I next decorate I'll take the spur from upstairs and have it covered up again. If/when it came to selling the house then I can easily chop off the ends of the mains lead.

I promise to post a photo when the TV has been mounted BTW, then at least you can see how they look on a wall.

 

[masona]

So how to go forward? My opinion is that what you have is not dangerous as long as you own the house and you know what's there.

What will happen if you do come to sell it?