Neighbour consultation stress

[banana12]

In December we recieved a "no prior approval" notice from the council for our larger home extension (via neighbour consultation scheme). It said there was no objection from neighbours and we are legally allowed to start works.

So we lined up builders, paid deposits, purchased bifolds, planned our kitchen etc.

6 weeks ago we realized our original house had rear wall step out in it, so we could technically go back another 85cm on the rear extension and still keep it all as a 6 meter extension. the additional bit is away from our adjoining neighbour and cant be seen by our non adjoining neighbour.

So We resubmitted to the scheme with revised drawings, thinking it should go through, but it turns out that this whole time our adjoining neighbour has been fighting tooth and nail to get our permission revoked because the council apparently ignored his first objection. We had a conversation with the neighbour prior to the first application and had no idea he was planning to object, or indeed did object, until our second application was submitted 6 weeks ago.

Obviously the new application has been rejected, and having sat with the neighbour for the last hour trying to appease him, he said he will do everything in his power to get the previous decision overturned.

Our works start ok Tuesday. Money has been paid. We are moving out. Do i need to worry about this? Is there any chance that this decision could be overturned on the basis that our neighbour did object but it wasn't logged correctly? We certainly do not want to be asked later to tear down our lovely new kitchen. Stressed and exhausted. please Help!

 

[Mottie]

I'm no legal expert but if you have permission, you have permission. Nothing has changed and if you hadn't have resubmitted you'd be none the wiser.

 

[JP_]

Yeah. just build it with the permission you were given forget about the 85cm bit. If building was not about to start it might be worth doing something, but why stress over 85cm that you didn't know you had until recently?

If building work was not about to start, I'd go for full planning every time.

 

[banana12]

Thanks so much for your replies. we are definitely not worried about the extra 85 cm which was just a bonus really like you said, but more worried that our neighbour objected without us realising and is now very determined to get this decision overturned. He is simply refusing to believe the "no prior approval" notice from Dec is valid based on his objection which was apparently ignored, and he thinks the council can still and will revoke it. he may even be heading down there now to kick up a fuss!! he tried his best to get me to stop the build until he is satisfied he has his answer, but we really can't as the ball is well and truly rolling. I regret that this has been the outcome, but I just hope we are doing nothing wrong by commencing works on tuesday as per our previously approved drawings (and won't be retrospectively asked to knock it down etc).

 

[JP_]

Well, OK, my advice. if building is starting, let them go ahead with the groundwork and foundations, call the council and ask them, can these people really stop the work?
If they say technically yes, then go full planning and ask them to push it through asap as you had been told no problem by council. And tell the bricklayer that May is a great time for a holiday!

 

[Footsoldier888]

I can see it might be a bit confusing but all you can do is show them your approval notice and politely tell them to take it up with the council.

You said in the other thread you have appointed a joint surveyor to administer your Party Wall Act agreement. You don't want to be demolishing anything until this is all sorted by your surveyor.

 

[banjodeano]

Good luck living with the neighbour after this, i feel your pain

 

[tony1851]

@op; it may not be as clear-cut as you think, even if the council has given you a written confirmation that prior approval is not needed.
If there is a step in the rear wall, this technically is 'a wall forming a side elevation' and an extension on that would not be PD.
Did the plan you submitted with the application show the 85cm step in the wall? If it didn't, the council could claim that the information you
submitted was misleading or incomplete, and that the notice was null and void.

 

[Footsoldier888]

If you do have any concerns still I suggest you put your address in to the planning section of the council website and triple check the approval is there.

You can always ring and speak to your case officer too.

If neighbour is very miffed I would make sure you have the Party Wall Agreement in place, as if you have appointed a joint surveyor as you say you have then the surveyor does have to act for both parties. You don't want building to start only to have the surveyor halt it for example. The surveyor does have to do a site visit before building can start.

 

[Footsoldier888]

@op; it may not be as clear-cut as you think, even if the council has given you a written confirmation that prior approval is not needed.
If there is a step in the rear wall, this technically is 'a wall forming a side elevation' and an extension on that would not be PD.
Did the plan you submitted with the application show the 85cm step in the wall? If it didn't, the council could claim that the information you
submitted was misleading or incomplete, and that the notice was null and void.

Very good point Tony.

I think you should take that point very seriously OP because a 6m extension is very far from a certain approval if you had to submit full plans.

 

[tony1851]

I'm no legal expert but if you have permission, you have permission. Nothing has changed and if you hadn't have resubmitted you'd be none the wiser.

Unfortunately, a notification from the council that prior approval is not needed is not the same as receiving planning permission, and doesn't carry anywhere near as much weight.
The reason is that with the neighbour consultation scheme, the council does not actually come to a decision as to whether or not to grant planning permission
if no neighbour objects, or to decide whether or not a proposal is permitted development. All the council can do is process the application on the information supplied to it and if that info. is incorrect, the development will not be permitted development and so would be unlawful.

 

[banana12]

Thanks everyone. This is all very useful.

-we have a joint party wall surveyor (initially instructed by the neighbour) who we appointed afterwards to act for both of us. He said he will issue the award by tomorrow and has every thing he needs.

- Tony- the plan which we submitted initially for which no prior approval was needed does not have a step-out in the rear wall.

- the second application does have the 85 cm step out, but this was rejected yesterday. if this is not PD anyways as it forms a new side elevation I am very grateful for this new information, as I can rest assured that we could not have got any more than we have now. Neither I nor my architects had any idea about this before, and we were all under the impression that you can extend 6meters from the original rear wall and follow any original step.

- we are proceeding with the works on tuesday based off the old plan which has a flush rear wall with no step out (between 5.15-6m from the original rear wall). this should be fine right? (provided that we stick to the plan supplied to the council in the original application). the second rejection does not nullify the first right , as they are different plans?

 

[tony1851]

- Tony- the plan which we submitted initially for which no prior approval was needed does not have a step-out in the rear wall.

This is why you need to be very careful.

It could just be that your LPA is not aware of the fact that an original rear extension seriously constrains what you can do in terms of extending
at the rear under PD; or maybe they are just relaxed about it and don't care to apply the rules correctly.

Remember that you have submitted two different plans to them. If your neighbour badgers the council, or gets a planning consultant to look at the issue, the LPA could turn round and say that the information you gave initially was misleading.

You say 'Neither I nor my architects had any idea about this before,...'; this seems like the blind leading the blind. Your architects are obviously not clued up about this. If you build in accordance with the original Notification from the council, and the council subsequently declares the notice void and the extension therefore technically unlawful, you need to look to your architect for an explanation.

 

[Notch7]

the second application does have the 85 cm step out, but this was rejected yesterday

I would think the question is whether the original drawings submitted showed the step out of the house as it was originally. If it doesnt then are you sure your 'no prior approval notice' is lawful.

a wall forming a side elevation could mean the PD rules are interpreted differently.

 

[banana12]

Remember that you have submitted two different plans to them. If your neighbour badgers the council, or gets a planning consultant to look at the issue, the LPA could turn round and say that the information you gave initially was misleading.

A bit confused by this point here - could you please clarify Tony?

I think the original rear wall should be marked clearly on the plan (I will double check this) along with our proposed rear wall which is maximally 6m from original and flush all the way across the rear width of the property . We then proceeded to reapply with another slightly larger plan, but this was rejected, so we have reverted back to the original plan. If we went with the first plan, in what way would it be misleading if the drawing we submitted matches up with our build?

Thank you!