New Barratts house - how IS it wired?

[julesmorcinek]

Hi all

At my sister-in-law's (sil's) house, a new Barratts kennel, the light circuits are weird.

No ceiling loop-in system - that's okay - but each wall switch carries the loop, ie, two cables per one-gang one-way, with a single strip connector buried in the backbox connecting up the blue leads from the two cables. What gives? Is this legal?

(Also, a couple of the ceiling fittings have a hole drilled through the centre of the joists where the light cable paases through to connect the fittings. Weird, as the (thin) joists are seriously weakened. Ain't never seen this before. Am I right to be concerned?)

Jules, A woried relative....

 

[AdamW]

Loop-in at switches is something which people have called for on here in the past. It makes a lot of sense, considering the types of lights people want fitted now. You could always use a JB tucked into the ceiling to loop, but the problem with this is, you can't easily access it. Looped switches mean you can.

The two blue cables being connected together are carrying the neutral to the light. Lightswitches are only single pole (ones I have seen anyway) so when looping at the switch you have to use a chockblock to make the neutral connections (blue wires? Sounds like they have been using the new colours, great!)

Might seem odd at first, but as soon as she comes home from IKEA with a new light fitting then she will bless Barratt's electricians little cotton socks for it.

May I ask, are you replacing the switches with more stylish ones or a dimmer per chance?

 

[dingbat]

There's nothing wrong with either:

In the lighting circuit, instead of using the ceiling roses as junction boxes the interconnections are made at the switches. It's perfectly safe.

Drilling diagonally down through the joist (which is what I think you've described) is extremely common practice. Given that, in structural calculations, material strength is reduced by quite large factors and loading calculations are beefed up significantly, there is a huge safety margin. I very much doubt that Barratts, who have, after all, put up quite a few houses, would allow it if they thought it would seriously affect structural integrity.

Hope that helps.

 

[dingbat]

It makes a lot of sense, considering the types of lights people want fitted now. You could always use a JB tucked into the ceiling to loop, but the problem with this is, you can't easily access it. Looped switches mean you can.

Better by far would be for lighting designers to actually look at how lighting circuits are commonly wired up, then design their shiny tat so that you can utilise an existing ceiling rose without having to disconnect any wires apart from those to the lamp!

 

[Lectrician]

Or better still, us sparks should not be so lazy, and do what the manufacturers want - a circular BESA box (or galv conduit box) fitted flush to the ceiling on a batten, or notched into the joist.

Besa fixings are a standard distance apart, and most fittings have the standard besa hoes - all you need is brass M4 screws to fit it up, and loads of wiring space!!

Most other countries do it, it is more work of course, but then so is taking the loops to the switches at times, if you have to use deeper boxes, and larger chase drops etc.

 

[dingbat]

Or better still, us sparks should not be so lazy, and do what the manufacturers want - a circular BESA box (or galv conduit box) fitted flush to the ceiling on a batten, or notched into the joist.

Laziness or cost? On a big housing development every little nicety gets costed out a long time before the sparks on the tools get to work and they just do what they've been asked. We'd all like to have the time to do a pucker job every time but who would pay for it?

And the cost to retro-fit them for replacement lights would price domestic sparks like me out of jobs - especially when they've only spent £20 on the light itself and Cousin Nigel's waiting in the wings with a bit of terminal strip and some tape.

 

[securespark]

Just making plans for Nigel?

 

[dingbat]

Just making plans for Nigel?

Nah... his future's as good as sealed!

 

[julesmorcinek]

Hi All

Thanks again for the information and advice - much appreciated. I accept your arguments that the loop-in ceiling roses and the usual 'ugly' bit of flex with the single lamp socket stuck on the end are outdated for most new fittings. I just didn't know that things had moved on... And you're right - it is an new IKEA fitting. And I do appreciate not having to dismantle the rose and fiddle with a power loop while simply changing a fitting.

I'm still not too happy about drilling through a joist though - they are WELL thin these days (although more in number, and, I accept, well withing design limits). Frankly, from what I saw, it left just a few millimetres either side of the hole, and it just doesn't seem necessary....

By the way, what's wrong with a bit of tape and a strip connector, as that's how most new fittings appear to work....


Cheers


Jules

 

[Damocles]

Can't say for sure, but I would guess you have one of those ridiculous atticks with braces all over the place holding up the roof. Assault course to get round. They rely a lot less on brute strength in the timbers to hold it all up. More like the cup in the statue from the hitch hiker's guide to the galaxy. All held up by art.

 

[AdamW]

Better by far would be for lighting designers to actually look at how lighting circuits are commonly wired up,

Ah, problem with that is, different countries do it different ways. Those two-wire fittings work great with the BESA boxes described above.

Saying that, surely any light fitting sold in the UK must comply with British Standards, in which case how do they get away with selling them as they do? Would it really be that hard for them to include a small JB that fits inside the light fitting to allow looping?