New light switch

[wicketless]

Hi there,
Have just moved into new property and found
1)no switches in living room light or downstairs hallway light
2)no ceiling rose for downstairs hallway light

Have connected 1 switch to living room (has red/black and earth)
The hallway however has 2 cables (2 black, 2 red and 2 earth).

Doest this mean the switch operates 2 lights? ie downstairs and upstairs.

Also, the the hallway light has 2 leads (2 x red, 2 x black and 2 x earth) all connected to terminals, and a 3rd lead on its own. Are the 2 connected leads from the mains and the third form the light switch.

Plse advise

 

[il78]

Light in hallway usually operates hallway and landing (2way)

Now this is pure guess work....and if its 2way

2gang/2way switch required

Taking into account that its twin and earth cable used

Red from one cable into C (common) on left hand side
2 blacks (one from each cable) into L1 & L2 on left hand side

Then take a piece of cable and loop it from C (left hand side) to C (right hand side) and with you last red conductor put into L1 (right hand side)

Electricians usually use 3core cable which makes it a little bit easier to understand......

 

[wicketless]

Thanx very much for the advice, i feel sure you are correct because:
one of the red wires has been stripped twice, once at the end, and once in the middle, possibly to make a connection from com to com.
Do you think I should cut this wire in half, use the split half to bridge from com to com, and use the rest to go into L1. If so I will try this tomorrow.

Ps I think this website rocks.....
Keep up the good work, and thanx once again

 

[il78]

use the red that has been cut twice in the C's (one end in C and middle bit in C on the other side, just bend it over) then the two blacks in L1 & L2
as I said above....if it dont work let us know........

Regards

Ian.

 

[wicketless]

Cheers Ian,
have done what you suggested, turned the downstairs lights on, and the switch works (although its not been tested upstairs yet...)

On a closer inspection of the living room switch however, have found there are also two cables in the wall mount. Both have red wires going to a terminator, (of which 1 has been doubled skinned, as per thelanding light). but only 1 of the cables has a black wire. i.e 2 x live, 2 x earth, 1 x neutral!!!

Is this another "quick fix" to 2 way wiring? There is an outside light, so maybe the light switch controls both lights. Does this sound reasonable to you? Should I be buying another 2gang 2way switch, or just a single gang single way.

ps can anybody explain why 1 lead would only have 1 wire. This may be common knwledge to electricians, in which case I'll just go away and hide.

Wicketless

 

[breezer]

it sounds like you have a twin red and earth, this is the cable that should be used for switches but rarely is.

You should also never assume anything, you seem to assume that because a wire is black it is a neutral, in a switch it is more than likeley a switched live. ideally it should also have red sleaving to indicate it is a switched live

 

[wicketless]

Breezer,
Would the twin red from the switch mean an extra red at the rose. I'll double check the set up, but from memory there are:

3 grey cables in the floor void above the light switch
1 addition black cable encased in grey.

From the cables there are:
3 x red connected to a terminal
2 x black connected to a terminal (will double check this...incase it is 1)
1x black dangling through the roof to the rose

And fron the additional cable
1x black encased in grey connected to the blacks on the terminal
This cable appears to be extended and sent to the rose.

Would this set up be as you'd expect using a twin red. And if so, does that mean the plate switch should be 1 gang ?

The setup looks similar to the hallway with the exception of the additional black wire at the light, and the lack of a black wire at the switch.

 

[breezer]

Breezer,
Would the twin red from the switch mean an extra red at the rose

yes and one less black

Would this set up be as you'd expect using a twin red.

sort of. I would guess the twin red wasnt long enough and that is why you have a black dangleing, its the switch wire

does that mean the plate switch should be 1 gang ?

"gang" refers to the number of "buttons" a switch has "way" is what the switch does.


EXAMPLES

so for one light controlled by one switch you want a one gang one way switch.

if how ever you have one light controlled from two different places you would have 1 gang 2way switch at each position

or the favorite, hall, outside and landing controlled from same place, 3 gang 1 way, but as they dont make one, a 3 gang 2 way would be used

 

[wicketless]

Breezer,
What you've suggested does make perfect sense, and explains the 4th (switch live) cable. But in this set up, would you expect to see only 2 reds at the switch plate?

The switch plate has 2 reds (with 3 skins) and 1 black.

Il78 suggested the staircase plate (2reds 3 skins and 2 blacks) was to simulate a 5th wire, and was probably for a 2gang 2way switch. Would there be a benefit using these tactics to simulate a 4th wire, or should they just be connected to a 1gang 1 way?

Cant take a closer look at the wiring untill Sat 15th anyway, but hope someone can advise in the meantime.

 

[breezer]

yes i would and yes you can

 

[wicketless]

Can anyone please assist?
Have taken a closer look at the living room light wiring, and from the bedroom floorboards it goes like this:

1 cable 2+e (mains1?) coming to/from dining room
1 cable 2+e (mains2?) coming to/from downsrairs hallway
1 cable 2+e (switch?) coming to/from living room switch plate
1 black cable encased in grey (no earth no red) running into a corner?

The connections at the non exixstant rose are

Red from (mains1?) into plastic terminal (loop?)
Red from (mains2?) into plastic terminal (loop?)
Red from (switch?) into plastic terminal (loop?)
Black from (mains1?) into plastic terminal (neutral?)
Black from (mains2?) into plastic terminal (neutral?)
Black from (switch?) dangles through ceiling
Black n gray cable into plastic terminal (neutral?)
Additional (off cut from above) black n gray cable in terminal (neutral?)
and dangled through the ceiling

All 4 blacks twisted together at the terminal.

The switch plate has
2 reds connected to plastic terminal
1 red skinned for an extra connection
1 black

Can the dangling wires be connected to L and N of a new rose
And can the red and black be connected to COM and L1 of a 1way switch
With the 2 reds remaining in the terminal?

I will get a sparky at some point to check everything, but for now the priorities are for a new bathroom and kitchen.