New TV Aerial

[securespark]

As some know if they have followed my threads, I bought a 58" Hisense Freely TV for the lounge and moved the 50" LG Freeview Play TV into the den.

Before I had the LG, I had two old Samsung Freeview TVs from 2013 and 2014.

The aerial is chimney mounted and feeds both TVs. It is split at ground level and a co-ax goes off to a booster in the garage and then on to the den.

This arrangement worked fine with the Sammys.
Once in a very rare while in Summer there might have been some very minor picture disturbance but it was very infrequent and only in Summer.

Now the LG breaks up all the time.
And the Hisense even complained of loss of signal yesterday, even though it is a Freely set, although to be fair, it is supplied with a co-ax feed too.

Also the LG has memory issues and keeps on having to reload apps, there are breaks while it does this, and that drives me nuts.

Initially I was very happy with it, but not now...

But on to my main question.

I got a quote for a second independent aerial for the den TV and it was £300.

I can get a new Freely TV that doesn't need an aerial for that!

Is £300 the going rate?

Have you any other suggestions?

The layout at the moment is that the co-ax from the aerial runs down into a waterproof box at low level. This splits off through an airbrick to the lounge TV, which is buried in the wall, and the den TV, which goes all round the Wrekin via the booster to the back of the house, then under the floor and into the stud wall.

Cheers.

 

[aveatry]

Stick the aerial in the loft or den.

I have have across the

memory issues and keeps on having to reload apps, there are breaks while it does this, and that drives me nuts.

All items on the tv are recognised as apps - even standard tv. To prevent the interruption you need to frequently manually clear the app memory otherwise it does it for you in the middle of somthing.

It should be here
settings or within the device's storage settings. 3. Run Memory Optimizer (LG TVs): On LG TVs, go to Settings > All Settings > General > OLED Care > Device Self-Care > Memory Optimizer.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Is £300 the going rate?
Have you any other suggestions?

The sinal is obviously not very good, when it gets to the 'low level splitter'. Take it first to a distribution amp, as close to the antenna as possible (in the loft), then on to each TV outlet. How's the coax, down from the antenna?

Buy yourself a roll of CT100, to use for temporary runs, to bypass dodgy coax cables.

 

[Rodders53]

Buy yourself a roll of CT100, to use for temporary runs, to bypass dodgy coax cables.

Webro WF100 or Triax TX100: i.e. copper core, copper foil, copper braid foam filled stuff.

The original CT100 was air spaced (bad for water tracking into receivers) and name has been used for some pretty suspect cable by other makers - copper clad steel or aluminium, plastic foils - yuk!!

At a push Philex PF100 might be all copper as well?

@securespark I'd need more detail on the existing aerial (pic / make and model), age and reception location (for reception / signal predictions)... postcode of nearby pub/shop/church/school within 100 metres if possible for accuracy.
Ditto for the passive splitter (make/model): best are 3.5 to 4dB loss.
Ditto the booster (aka amplifier).

Amps should be as near the aerial as possible. So relocate to the splitter position, and see if that helps (passive split after the amp if it is a one way amp). As a simple start.

https://www.aerialsandtv.com/knowledge/splitters-amps-and-diplexers#amp-basics is worth a read.

 

[Lucid]

We only have part of the picture (no pun intended) so it's difficult to assess whether you're having your leg lifted or if the installer has quoted you low for all the work that might be involved.

There are a few factors to bear in mind that might be contributing to your current issues:
- I'm guessing you've had your TV aerial a while. It might predate all the channel shuffling that went on with the 800MHz and 700MHz clearances, - so it could now be running on frequencies it wasn't originally designed for. If this is the case, it can affect the signal level that the aerial generates
- Stuff ages. This includes coax, the aerial itself. The performance falls with wear and tear. Also, maybe the aerial is no longer aligned quite as accurately after years of weather exposure
- Stuff grows. Trees, new buildings, phone masts, all that stuff. There might now be some things in line of sight between your aerial and the transmitter. This would affect the signal level reaching your aerial
- Some LG TVs are a PITA for switching on their internal 5V coax power supply for masthead amps after a firmware update. This can cause issues for existing coax-powered amps, so an isolator might be required
- adding a powered amplifier close to a set makes the signal-to-noise ratio worse. Power boost near to the aerial. Passive split close to the TVs
- cheap coax is a false economy. It can be more susceptible to UV and frost damage. It may also be more lossy, and this can lead to signal loss issues appearing years earlier than with all-copper coax cables


Incidental stuff:
- A Freely TV fed via an aerial operates just the same as any ordinary TV. If you happen to be watching an over-the-air signal (OTA) and it gets disrupted then yes, you'll get a signal lost message. Being a Freely set integrates OTA more closely with Internet-streamed content than the average smart TV. However, TTBOMK, that doesn't mean the TV will automatically swap from OTA to streamed during signal disruption. If you know different though, please feel free to update me

- The memory issues with the LG TV are a separate issue. Relying on TVs for smart apps is short-term thinking unless you're buying top-of-the-line sets. Even then, there's a limit to how many updates the TVs will support. A Fire TV / Apple TV / Roku streaming stick is where you need to be if longer-term app support is your requirement

Regarding your TV aerial quote, a couple of suggestions:
1) ask the installer to help you understand the quote. There are lots of factors such as geographic location (strong signal area vs poor signal area), traveling time, property type (a quick install or something more time-consuming), aesthetic considerations (e.g. hiding cable behind guttering or inside stud wall or D'n'D cavities), special requirements (e.g. working around rending), the quality of the gear used such as hot-dip galvanised brackets vs standard galv vs pressed steel plates, high grade all-copper coax (Webro WF100 or similar) vs basic RG6 / low loss coax, what else is included (masthead signal amp?), chopping out and sinking a wall socket, chopping out walls then making good, lifting floors, is this a single-man job or a two-man job, the length of the warranty - all of these things and more affect the final price. It's not really possible to judge just off a price because there are too many factors at play

2) get a second price for comparison, but make sure they're quoting like-for-like

 

[securespark]

Thank you everyone. A lot for me to think about.

Regarding the Hisense Freely TV...assuming the aerial is duff, if I unplug the co-ax to it, would that improve things?

When I say duff, I have once had a notice saying loss of signal and it went away pretty much straight away. The picture has never broken up like with the LG in the den.

 

[Rodders53]

Quote the numbers given by the set for Signal and Quality on each of the multiplex frequencies received by the Hisense and the LG...

Then move them to the 'other location' and repeat to see if the sets behave differently or the same.

Repeat measurements with the amp in current and the closer to aerial location as well.

Unplug the aerial and you'll only be able to stream TV channels.

I doubt any Freely TVs are designed to fall over from UHF reception loss to iPTV and back... they are nowhere near the same coding delays and the user experience would be awful.

 

[Lucid]

Regarding the Hisense Freely TV...assuming the aerial is duff, if I unplug the co-ax to it, would that improve things?

When I say duff, I have once had a notice saying loss of signal and it went away pretty much straight away. The picture has never broken up like with the LG in the den.

Are you talking about improving things for the LG TV in the den if you unplug the coax feed for the HiSense TV? If so, the answer is no. The splitting loss (roughly 4dB) has already happened at the splitter. If anything, having the signal lead unterminated that goes to the HiSense TV could actually make things worse for the LG, though it's marginal.

To improve the feed for the LG (at the same time leaving the HiSense out of the loop), bypass the passive two-way splitter. Use a back-to-back barrel connector and then seal up with some self-amalgamating tape to waterproof if this is going to be more than a 1/2-day test. You might also try bypassing the powered amp to see if better SNR helps.

As Rodders suggested, get familiar with the Quality and Strength numbers for your local muxes. Take down the numbers for the LG TV as it is right now. Next, bypass the passive splitter and check again. Quality should be roughly the same but strength improved. Jot down the numbers for comparison. Finally, bypass the powered amp. Strength will probably go down by Quality should improve.

If you can get strength to 50-60%, and quality up to 70-80% then you should have solid reception so long as there are no deciduous trees close by and in direct line-of-site for your local transmitter.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

When I say duff, I have once had a notice saying loss of signal and it went away pretty much straight away.

My reception is 100%, but even I get the occasional loss - usually a glitch at the transmitter.

 

[Lucid]

My reception is 100%, but even I get the occasional loss - usually a glitch at the transmitter.

"Reception" is a bit of a vague term. There's Quality (signal to noise ratio), and there's Strength which is a measure of signal level.

Getting 100% strength is easy. Just bang in a load of amplification. There you go, you could say you have 100% reception, but the signal would glitch a lot if the Quality has fallen as a result. Too much Strength and not enough Quality will do that. You'll overload the tuner.