Newbie asking "Is this possible ?"

[robbigee]

Hi guys,

New forumite about to undertake my first Home Improvement project on an early 70s 2 bed flat.

The flat does not have gas but has all other services. From what I can tell from my basic knowledge it has an immersion heater and an economy7 controller. It also has a hot air heating system which I've been reading up on.

Anyway, my current plan is to rewire the electrics, install panel heaters instead of the hot air system (this is a space reclaiming decision rather than efficiency!) and then leave the hot water system as it is (updating as required).

In terms of visable stuff I'm fitting a new kitchen and bathroom and shifting some doors. Nothing too taxing although I would like to create a much larger bathroom space and add a walk in shower.

This is what the floor plan looks like now:

Untitled

• robbigee
• 21 Feb 2011
• 4

And this is what I'm thinking of doing:

Untitled

• robbigee
• 21 Feb 2011
• 1

*Please note I'm not changing the window in the bathroom it's just the agents plans had the window too big and too far along!!

I would really really appreciate any thoughts, comments, challenges, alternatives, experiences etc etc that will set me on my way before I start engaging tradesmen, suppliers etc etc

Thanks ever so much in advance and I hope one day I can pass on some advice to some others!!

Regards

Rob

 

[vv2806]

I wouldn't remove the door that leads to the bedroom/bathroom section. If you live with someone else and one of you goes to bed earlier then the other, 2 doors would provide better soundproofing than one door. Same for the bathroom - if you have guests, you don't want to hear what's happening in the bathroom when they use it.

If there is no cooker hood in the kitchen, you might want to put one to reduce the smell and vapour.

What is the benefit of moving the door between the hall and the sitting room? Better arrangement of furniture?

For the rewire, if you are not familiar with part P, what is and what is not notifiable work - go to the electrics forum and read the Wiki and the archive posts. According to the current regulations you have to notify your LABC in advance or pay an electrician who is a member of a relevant organization.

 

[robbigee]

I wouldn't remove the door that leads to the bedroom/bathroom section. If you live with someone else and one of you goes to bed earlier then the other, 2 doors would provide better soundproofing than one door. Same for the bathroom - if you have guests, you don't want to hear what's happening in the bathroom when they use it.

Great point VV, I think I got carried away with 'open plan' and seeing as it's only a hall way I think you're right!

If there is no cooker hood in the kitchen, you might want to put one to reduce the smell and vapour.

There sin't and I will be, I just didn't know how to draw it in the plan! But thanks for the reminder )

What is the benefit of moving the door between the hall and the sitting room? Better arrangement of furniture?

Yes, my plan is to have a piece of furniture housing the TV etc on the left hand wall and by moving the door it allows me to have my sofa positioned a reasonable distance away while still ensuring that people "walking through" can pass behind the sofa creating a "natural hallway".

For the rewire, if you are not familiar with part P, what is and what is not notifiable work - go to the electrics forum and read the Wiki and the archive posts. According to the current regulations you have to notify your LABC in advance or pay an electrician who is a member of a relevant organization.

I'll be leaving the rewiring to a professional seeing as this is my first project, I'll make sure I understand the requirements though before I invite people to quote!

The hot water/bathroom layout was my real concern so am glad you've not seen any obvious problems there!!

 

[vv2806]

Robbi, I am not a plumber or gas engineer. I can solder pipes, install sinks, baths, etc. but about the type and design of your hot water system you better wait for some of the pro plumbers to reply. Or post a topic on the plumbing forum with more specific questions.

From the drawings it seems that the bath and the sink remain in place, the hot water cabinet will open to the hallway instead to the bathroom, which shouldn't be a problem. About the toilet - it depends on the position of the toilet stack. Normally it would be in the corner by the external wall but it is not shown on the picture. I suppose it wouldn't be difficult to turn the toilet pan around. You will need supply for the shower - what is the floor - timber joists and floorboards or concrete?

Nothing is impossible but make sure you know what the requirements are and the best way to do the job. There might be tighter regulations about flats, too - concerning fire safety and sound proofing for example, which you have to keep in mind while opening the floor/ceiling void. And of course, be careful not to knock down a bearing wall

Good luck!

 

[michaelcouper]

panel heaters are pretty poor, i would try get in touch with electric supplier and try get a total control tariff, allowing you to put water filled heaters up, they look like radiators and are very cheap to run (also lets u dry clothes in front of it unlike panel heating)

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Is the flat on the ground floor? If not then bedroom 1 already has a poor fire escape (via the living room (the second most vulnerable room for a fire after the kitchen) and your proposal makes it even worse. Anyone in Bed 1 if a fire breaks out in the kitchen could be in deep doodoo! You could well be in breach of your lease and / or insurance if you go forward with this proposal.

 

[Static]

Anything is possible if you have the money..

Opening up flats tends to be expensive unless you only remove non load bearing walls.. chances are almost all the ones your messing with are load bearing thou, so get saving..

 

[robbigee]

panel heaters are pretty poor, i would try get in touch with electric supplier and try get a total control tariff, allowing you to put water filled heaters up, they look like radiators and are very cheap to run (also lets u dry clothes in front of it unlike panel heating)

Thanks Michael. Do you know where I can read more about these water filled heaters you talk of ? And the pros and cons of other alternatives?!

 

[robbigee]

Is the flat on the ground floor? If not then bedroom 1 already has a poor fire escape (via the living room (the second most vulnerable room for a fire after the kitchen) and your proposal makes it even worse. Anyone in Bed 1 if a fire breaks out in the kitchen could be in deep doodoo! You could well be in breach of your lease and / or insurance if you go forward with this proposal.

Freddy, thanks for your input and I hear what you're saying.

I did consider installing a corridor inbetween the bedrooms and living room which I guess could help but I obviously then lose alot of living room space.

I've looked at a number of other flats in the block and they have all made the change that I'm proposing i.e. blocking the door between the two bedrooms and leaving the main walk way through the living room.

Food for thought though and I will give it more consideration.

 

[robbigee]

Anything is possible if you have the money..

Opening up flats tends to be expensive unless you only remove non load bearing walls.. chances are almost all the ones your messing with are load bearing thou, so get saving..

Static,

Thanks for your reply.

What makes you say you think they would be load bearing ?

My only concern would be the wall between the kitchen and the balcony windows/door.

The wall between lviing room and entrance hall is just a glass/wood panel. The wal seperating the toilet from the bathroom at present feels very flimsy and the only other wall I'm touching I'll actually be strengthening by filling it in surely ??

Thanks in advance.

Rob

 

[Static]

I know nothing about your flats structure, so can only guess.. but by its shape it looks like a corner appartment in a purpose built unit due.. so could be at any floor level..

So assuming its a mid/low level flat with ones above, the balcony above yours bears onto the sitting room wall, unless its a concrete framed block then you might be in luck..

5.8x4.6m span of the sitting room would suggest the span in left - right on plan of whatever flooring is there, so would make the sitting-kitchen wall another likely load bearing wall.. again if concrete frame then could just be infill partition..

Entrance hall window.. well yes thats not gonna be a problem, unless its concrete frames then one of the cupboard walls could be a concrete column.. may also find similar issue with the cupboard in the kitchen..

Making the toilet window smaller shouldnt be a problem.

Lastly you may want to look into problems with freehold/leasehold permissions.. and partywall act if your messing with load bearing structure supporting the flat above..

 

[robbigee]

Thanks again Static. These are all reasons I joined the forum!!

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Is the flat on the ground floor? If not then bedroom 1 already has a poor fire escape (via the living room (the second most vulnerable room for a fire after the kitchen) and your proposal makes it even worse. Anyone in Bed 1 if a fire breaks out in the kitchen could be in deep doodoo! You could well be in breach of your lease and / or insurance if you go forward with this proposal.

Freddy, thanks for your input and I hear what you're saying.

I did consider installing a corridor inbetween the bedrooms and living room which I guess could help but I obviously then lose alot of living room space.

I've looked at a number of other flats in the block and they have all made the change that I'm proposing i.e. blocking the door between the two bedrooms and leaving the main walk way through the living room.

Food for thought though and I will give it more consideration.

I doubt it and just because others consider that it will never happen to them either does not mean it won't.

 

[robbigee]

Is the flat on the ground floor? If not then bedroom 1 already has a poor fire escape (via the living room (the second most vulnerable room for a fire after the kitchen) and your proposal makes it even worse. Anyone in Bed 1 if a fire breaks out in the kitchen could be in deep doodoo! You could well be in breach of your lease and / or insurance if you go forward with this proposal.

Freddy, thanks for your input and I hear what you're saying.

I did consider installing a corridor inbetween the bedrooms and living room which I guess could help but I obviously then lose alot of living room space.

I've looked at a number of other flats in the block and they have all made the change that I'm proposing i.e. blocking the door between the two bedrooms and leaving the main walk way through the living room.

Food for thought though and I will give it more consideration.

I doubt it and just because others consider that it will never happen to them either does not mean it won't.

Easy Freddy, I wasn't suggesting it was any safer, I just meant in terms of breaching the lease etc!!

 

[OwainDIYer]

You may have a problem.

You must apply for Building Regulations approval for changing the arrangement of rooms and comply with the requirements for means of escape in a fire.

Exit from a bedroom through a kitchen or other habitable room isn't usually allowed nowadays.

That's why there's a door between Bedroom 1 and Bedroom 2 - to provide an alternate means of escape to the hall.