No real alternatives to fossil fuels ..

[Justin Passing]

doesn't add up.

numbers made up by Justin Passin. Wouldn't trust much of what they say.

You're being silly, again, John.
Come along, you wouldn't want people saying that JohnD sees himself so important he can be the #1 top forum troll?

It does add up, divide, and the rest.

The mileage figure I gave is about the same as you gave. I hadn't seen yours which you'll realise if you look at the times of posting.
40 is quite close to YOUR 37, and if that's the average, it means that HALF DO MORE.

Tell me which bit you disagree with??????????????????????????
.

The links I have still open are from
Buy-a-car which gives some manufacturers figures for optimum economy.
RAC which gave the 12496
and the ONS.

If you read the NG's document - from which I haven't taken any figures at all, you'll see it's full of assertions and plans, making the whole thing look like a party political broadcast - no references for their statements. They conveniently forget multi-car households, for example.

Perhaps you didn't like it that I gave a bit more than you did??

 

[IT Minion]

That's 40 miles per day, weekdays, for which my size of car needs 20kWh per day, because I don't drive round a test track getting the maximum economy.

Say I'm one of the third or so British households with more than one car and like the majority I have only one offstreet space for charging a car. So I want the effin thing charged in 2-3 hours so the household can swap them round and go to bed today. Now you can't expect me to have to charge it multiple times per week like that.
It's got a 90kWh battery. I need to be able to charge it to the max in case ....
Realistically I need 75 kWh in 2 hrs, fairly often.
So I want a 40kW charger or my virility will be impugned.
I have a 60A panel - I'm going to need three of those.

So, you've bought your Audi E-Tron SUV. With your heavy foot it does 2 miles per kWh. You do a regular commute 40miles round trip and there are no fast chargers en route, no slow chargers at the destination and you never fill up at the shops. And the same is true for all other EVs you own and that are used by other household members.

That 90kWh battery means that a single charge covers 180miles or four days and some spare. So you charge it over the weekend and top it up Tuesday/Wednesday night so you never run too low on battery. A 7kW charger can put 70kWh into your battery in a 10 hour period, that's an additional 140 miles restored a night.

For the five other nights a week the other two cars get to share the off-street parking space. Unless you've led with the least used car in the household you'd be fine. Swapping it overnight is just strange, why would you do that?

If you really have trouble then a 30 minute fast charge will restore 0-80%, you wouldn't need it routinely but if you had to do Lands End to John o Groats all of a sudden you could.

 

[JohnD]

They conveniently forget multi-car households, for example.

you need to pop along to Barnard Castle and get your eyes tested.

I've been looking at the National Grid document mentioned earlier.

This bit is interesting:

"Statistically the first car in a family does around 37 miles a day on average and any second car covers around 11 miles daily."

 

[Justin Passing]

7kW? Far too inconvenient. I might be away at the weekend. I might forget one day. Someone else might forget one day and wail about their important trip, the next day. The daughter with her Merc also wants it and the wife's Disco too.

Nobody fills a tank half full. With fuel it really does but DO YOU??

With an Audi, Merc and Landy we're far too important to be shuffling cars around all week. We shall be on to our MP that we can't work because of the lack of facilities...

 

[IT Minion]

7kW? Far too inconvenient. I might be away at the weekend. I might forget one day. Someone else might forget one day and wail about their important trip, the next day. The daughter with her Merc also wants it and the wife's Disco too.

Nobody fills a tank half full. With fuel it really does but DO YOU??

With an Audi, Merc and Landy we're far too important to be shuffling cars around all week. We shall be on to our MP that we can't work because of the lack of facilities...

Nope, sounds like you're just trying to find reasons it won't work.

With batteries you charge up little and often, so in that example you'd be dropping down to half a battery then going back up to 90% or 100% as you choose.

You really haven't thought this through at all. Not least because there are no Electric Landrovers, apart from after market modifications.

 

[Justin Passing]

Here we go again
IT Minion alters his post and it shows as an edit, fair enough

JohnD alters his post and it DOESN'T show as an edit.

 

[Justin Passing]

Nope, sounds like you're just trying to find reasons it won't work.

With batteries you charge up little and often, so in that example you'd be dropping down to half a battery then going back up to 90% or 100% as you choose.

You really haven't thought this through at all. Not least because there are no Electric Landrovers, apart from after market modifications.

No that is not the way I charge batteries.
I've never charged a battery like that in my life.

I would have thought it was obvious that I was citing a typical attitude of Joe Public. Who is going to moan like hell when he's inconvenienced. Especially if he thinks he's special, driving his Audi, Merc and Landy. (Which may perfectly well be a Special. So what? Are you that desperate to find something to say??
https://www.stratstone.com/land-rover/new-cars/discovery-sport/hybrid-electric/ )


This was true in 1926 and I see no reason to think it might be changed:
"No one in this world, so far as I know ... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."[2

I'd bet that we'll see a thriving business in mobile EV chargers, being called out to people in offices worried that they might not make the journey home, or have gone flat when trying.

 

[Swwils]

It's still early days for battery topology and infrastructure.

No reason to think that 400mile, 800V charging wouldn't be commonplace and standard issue soon enough.

Most likely will ditch the problematic metals in the packs and switch to li-fe chemistry aswell.

It's typical historic-think. You need to do your assessment in the actual specifications of today, not data from studies 5 years old.

 

[IT Minion]

No that is not the way I charge batteries.
I've never charged a battery like that in my life.

Well you should get used to it, running a modern battery to flat is very bad for it. Phone, laptop, tablet, car, watch, headphones. Needless to say this ties in very nicely with your second part about the general ignorance of humanity.

I would have thought it was obvious that I was citing a typical attitude of Joe Public. Who is going to moan like hell when he's inconvenienced. Especially if he thinks he's special, driving his Audi, Merc and Landy. (Which may perfectly well be a Special. So what? Are you that desperate to find something to say??
https://www.stratstone.com/land-rover/new-cars/discovery-sport/hybrid-electric/ )


This was true in 1926 and I see no reason to think it might be changed:
"No one in this world, so far as I know ... has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people."[2

I'd bet that we'll see a thriving business in mobile EV chargers, being called out to people in offices worried that they might not make the journey home, or have gone flat when trying.

You do know what a hybrid is? I'll give you a clue, it includes a petrol engine. It's not an EV. If you've bought an actual EV landrover conversion then you know what an EV is and how it works.

There are already plenty of mobile charging systems in use. Including mobile fast chargers.

I expect people will work it out after the first decade or so.

 

[IT Minion]

It's still early days for battery topology and infrastructure.

No reason to think that 400mile, 800V charging wouldn't be commonplace and standard issue soon enough.

Most likely will ditch the problematic metals in the packs and switch to li-fe chemistry aswell.

It's typical historic-think. You need to do your assessment in the actual specifications of today, not data from studies 5 years old.

Tesla have just announced they're switching all their standard range models over to LIFe. Apparently the patents are expiring so we should see a lot more if it around. Hooray for cheaper batteries.

 

[Justin Passing]

"You do know what a hybrid is? I'll give you a clue, it includes a petrol engine. It's not an EV. If you've bought an actual EV landrover conversion then you know what an EV is and how it works."

Of course, everyone knows. There are full hybrids, plug in ,, oh FFS.
There are hybrids already and no reason why someone shouldn't build a 100% electric anything.. Or have some other vehicle or another Audi or whatever - it 's irrelevant. You have nothing to say so you're trolling.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

The links I have still open are from
Buy-a-car which gives some manufacturers figures for optimum economy.
RAC which gave the 12496
and the ONS.

..and pre-retirement, I would do considerably more than that - triple, quadruple - I would need a new vehicle every two years.

 

[IT Minion]

..and pre-retirement, I would do considerably more than that - triple, quadruple - I would need a new vehicle every two years.

Really high milage is interesting for EVs, you can save a fortune because your fuel costs are a third that of petrol (£4,000 a year saving for that milage, roughly). But you need to have a workload that allows it. If you use Motorways service stations it can work well, when you stop for a **** you can put in as much as 75 miles in 5 mins, or for around 180 miles in a 15 minute loo break.

 

[Harry Bloomfield]

Really high milage is interesting for EVs, you can save a fortune because your fuel costs are a third that of petrol (£4,000 a year saving for that milage, roughly). But you need to have a workload that allows it. If you use Motorways service stations it can work well, when you stop for a **** you can put in as much as 75 miles in 5 mins, or for around 180 miles in a 15 minute loo break.

Great, but how would that have helped me? Dashing from one end of the county to the other, usually just on street parking when I got there, no time to stop for breaks, never breaks to recharge - had it even been possible to find an empty charging spot.

 

[IT Minion]

Great, but how would that have helped me? Dashing from one end of the county to the other, usually just on street parking when I got there, no time to stop for breaks, never breaks to recharge - had it even been possible to find an empty charging spot.

You did one end of the country to the other without stopping for a **** or to eat or to sleep? That's not healthy.

It's possible it wouldn't work for your old work pattern. EVs are still relatively new and charging is still harder than it should be, the newest EVs with 500 miles of range arent yet available.

Just for fun, how much would it have slowed you down if you did have to stop for 30 minutes every 200 miles or so? When I was doing lots of miles I'd stop once if I was driving for more than 2 hours, so for me it wouldn't have slowed me at all. But my trips never went longer than 5 hours with of driving at worst and mostly it was 3 or less