Non-Certified Installers Undertaking 'Donkey Work' - Legal?

[EViS]

What does the law and building regulations say about builders undertaking 'donkey work' with routing and laying cables, and then having a certified electrician undertake the final connections?

In relevance to this, are builders also legally allowed to undertake all the connections and then having the work 'signed off' by a certified installer? This seems to be quite popular, but is it strictly legal?

 

[Taylortwocities]

The cretification and notification process is done by a registered electrician who can "self certify" if he has done the work.

Sometimes an electrician will allow others to run cables UNDER HIS DIRECTION and will need to inspect that the works have been done in accordance with Wiring Regulations. That means he will need to see all aspects of the cable runs before plastering / overcovering of the cables.

The certification states that the (electrician) has designed, installed and tested the installation in accordance with (the) standards.

There is NO option for a registered electrcian to turn up and cert and notify the work as his own if he didnt do the work. If he does then he is a lying bar steward and can be taken to court for fraud.

Thats the deal and the registration bodies are lobbying to get the process tightened up to stop this sort of thing happening.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ky-boiler-died-catalogue-workmens-errors.html

If its your job, you need to engange a registered electrician and work with him/her.

 

[EViS]

Sometimes an electrician will allow others to run cables UNDER HIS DIRECTION and will need to inspect that the works have been done in accordance with Wiring Regulations. That means he will need to see all aspects of the cable runs before plastering / overcovering of the cables

Would "running cables" include connecting into the existing live circuits for these to then be checked by said certified electrician?

 

[Chri5]

Yes, but it is a team game. He is the manager and the captain, if your useless or won't do as asked then you won be in the team.

Ask for a modular job.

Section out.

New cu, tails and bonding + testing 1st

Add in or alter circuits 2nd, 3rd etc. as already mentioned you have to work to his demands. Follow cable routes suggested, standards of workmanship and keep everything open and available for inspection.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Would "running cables" include connecting into the existing live circuits for these to then be checked by said certified electrician?

Testing has two phases:
Firstly: Dead tests
these do things like checking the continuity of the cables, making sure the insulation resistance etc is OK etc.
This is done before
Live tests
That is the point at which the new circuit is connected up to 230volts.
Further tests are done at this point before the circuit is put into service.

So you'd need your experienced electrician to do the dead tests and he would connect up, do the live tests, etc.

Its not a case of your brikky connecting up the wires he's just put in and checking the lights work (That's not testing!). Testing has to be done FIRST.


So NO is the answer to your question .

 

[EViS]

Thanks for clarifying .

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The traditional model of Qualified Supervisor responsible for the work of a bunch of unqualified knuckle-draggers (I charicature) was operated by NICIEC firms for ever.

The concept of a qualified person signing to say that "he" did the work when what he actually did was to instruct a subordinate who worked for the same employer and then checked that the knuckle-dragger had done as he was told is one thing - signing off the work done by people who are not employees of the same firm as you and over whom you have no authority is quite another.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

The traditional model of Qualified Supervisor responsible for the work of a bunch of unqualified knuckle-draggers (I charicature) was operated by NICIEC firms for ever.

The concept of a qualified person signing to say that "he" did the work when what he actually did was to instruct a subordinate who worked for the same employer and then checked that the knuckle-dragger had done as he was told is one thing - signing off the work done by people who are not employees of the same firm as you and over whom you have no authority is quite another.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Bizarre - I posted twice because I thought the first time I must have gone back without hitting submit - when I viewed the thread my post was not there, even after doing a page refresh.

After the second apparent failure I noticed I could see my posts in the topic review when replying, but still not in the normal view.

Ho hum.

 

[Adam_151]

The traditional model of Qualified Supervisor responsible for the work of a bunch of unqualified knuckle-draggers (I charicature) was operated by NICIEC firms for ever.

The concept of a qualified person signing to say that "he" did the work when what he actually did was to instruct a subordinate who worked for the same employer and then checked that the knuckle-dragger had done as he was told

Not entirely relevant to the thread, but just FYI under the QS system the QS doesn't actually sign to say he's done the work, the electrician (or electricians in the case of a 3 part EIC) do that. But there is another signature box that the QS signs to say he has overseen the work and is happy that the electrician has done it correctly and filled in the cert properly. I'm not saying the system doesn't still have failings, however

 

[ban-all-sheds]

But it's quite possible that the people doing the work are not electricians, or at least do not have qualifications which would with confidence demonstrate that they were able to sign EICs.

 

[RF Lighting]

And it's quite possible that they were electricians, and they do have qualifications which would with confidence demonstrate that they were able to sign EICs.

I worked for an NICEIC firm. There was one QS, and 7 or 8 electricians. If the QS wasn't completely satisfied that the work being carried out was up to standard and the individual was properly qualified, such as our apprentices, then they were not allowed to work on their own, and if it was someone masquerading as an electrician when in fact they were not, they would have been dismissed.

I don't know why people have a problem with the QS system. It worked very well indeed for us.

 

[Taylortwocities]

Maybe because the balance of investment in knowledge and equipment is slewed in favour of the NICEIC/QS scheme.

A small/sole trading electrical company has to register each person who is doing electrical works.
(Simply stated view) with QS there's only one relatively costly investment with a number of donkeys doing the work.