Not happy with the window fitter - Finding it hard to speak about it....

[ToastyToes]

Hi all,

I've had an independent window fitter install several branded windows in my house. It's cost several thousand pounds.

I'm particularly not happy with the way the bay window has been installed. I believe the windows could have been over an inch wider each which has left a large gap between the original bay window decorative support posts and the new windows.

We did discuss we wanted the windows as close to the posts as possible which clearly hasn't happened..

I don't expect him to replace the bay with bigger windows as it would cost too much...

Would can I do in this situation??

 

[JP_]

photos please

 

[Lower]

You need to speak with him and tell him you're not happy. If you believe that he's not done what you agreed then you need to explain that to him so that he can either put it right or explain why he's done what he's done.

It doesn't need to be confrontational, just factual. If he has got something wrong, it is entirely reasonable for you to expect him to put it right. However, there may be a valid reason why he's done what he's done that means what you thought you were getting wasn't achievable.

However, if you don't talk to him you can't expect anything to happen.

Have you paid yet?

 

[ToastyToes]

photos please

I'll try to get some tonight.

You need to speak with him and tell him you're not happy. If you believe that he's not done what you agreed then you need to explain that to him so that he can either put it right or explain why he's done what he's done.

It doesn't need to be confrontational, just factual. If he has got something wrong, it is entirely reasonable for you to expect him to put it right. However, there may be a valid reason why he's done what he's done that means what you thought you were getting wasn't achievable.

However, if you don't talk to him you can't expect anything to happen.

Have you paid yet?

Not yet - only 20%.

 

[Notch7]

I believe the windows could have been over an inch wider each which has left a large gap between the original bay window decorative support posts and the new windows

Some bay windows can be vary difficult to measure, as the survey is done when the original window is in place and it can be hard to see whats going on.

Maybe in your case the original windows were wood and the new are upvc -which could be a much shallower profile and causing the issue.

Have you checked both internally and externally, sometimes the opening is effectively rebated which can mean a compromise.

Depending on window type, typically new windows have more frame and less glass which can make things look worse.

If its really wrong, new frames are the only answer unfortunately -in which case its a mis measure that the window installer khows and is hoping to get away with!

Luckily Ive made very few survey errors over the years, but when it happens, you just have to do the right thing and replace whatevers wrong.

 

[gigz]

You might be due some condensation . Sorry.

 

[ToastyToes]

Some bay windows can be vary difficult to measure, as the survey is done when the original window is in place and it can be hard to see whats going on.

Maybe in your case the original windows were wood and the new are upvc -which could be a much shallower profile and causing the issue.

Have you checked both internally and externally, sometimes the opening is effectively rebated which can mean a compromise.

Depending on window type, typically new windows have more frame and less glass which can make things look worse.

If its really wrong, new frames are the only answer unfortunately -in which case its a mis measure that the window installer khows and is hoping to get away with!

Luckily Ive made very few survey errors over the years, but when it happens, you just have to do the right thing and replace whatevers wrong.

The bay windows which have been fitted are smaller then that on the survey.

The side bay windows should be 8cm wider each, and the middle 16cm! No idea how its that far off.....

Both old and new are uPVC but the new windows are sliding sash.

 

[Mottie]

Looking online at some pictures, the sliding sash bay ones seem to have more upvc and less glass than the non sliding sash ones as they seem to have a frame inside a frame. Perhaps that’s to accommodate the design?

 

[Notch7]

The bay windows which have been fitted are smaller then that on the survey.

The side bay windows should be 8cm wider each, and the middle 16cm! No idea how its that far off.....

Both old and new are uPVC but the new windows are sliding sash

Ahh so youve changed from casements to vertical sliders.....

Thats interesting: a slider has a much deeper frame and may sit in a different position.

My guess: survey error or order error

Was the house originally timber box sashes, then changed to upvc casements?
And were they fitted with some of the timber frame still remaining?

New upvc sliders should have pretty similar sightlines to original timber if measured and fitted right.

 

[ToastyToes]

Looking online at some pictures, the sliding sash bay ones seem to have more upvc and less glass than the non sliding sash ones as they seem to have a frame inside a frame. Perhaps that’s to accommodate the design?

Ahh so youve changed from casements to vertical sliders.....

Thats interesting: a slider has a much deeper frame and may sit in a different position.

My guess: survey error or order error

Was the house originally timber box sashes, then changed to upvc casements?
And were they fitted with some of the timber frame still remaining?

New upvc sliders should have pretty similar sightlines to original timber if measured and fitted right.

We knew there would be more frame then the casements. Images below of some of the issues - I'm about to send him an email. I'm beyond ****ed off now.



Not sure if you can notice the wood grain trim with the smooth frames too...

 

[Notch7]

Did he fit them from the inside or outside?

Im only looking on a buggered screen but my guess is they shouldve been measured to fit behind the brickwork, not in between.

Im wondering if he has measured them for internal box size and has ordered external box size -Im not sure on upvc ordering methods, Im a wood man and in wood box sashes can be ordered in 2 diff ways.......

 

[Notch7]

We knew there would be more frame then the casements. Images below of some of the issues - I'm about to send him an email. I'm beyond ****ed off now

Ive had a look on the pc now -Im wondering if when the upvc casements were fitted, the original weight boxes were left in place and the new sliders have been measured to the same.

the inside detail might tell a bit more -do you have the original architrave around each window? -traditional box sashes had to be fitted from the inside because they were wider than the external brickwork and the box frames pushed up against the back of the external brickwork -ie in the cavity (internal brickwork is therefore wider).

To fit replacements to achieve similar sightlines, would require the architrave to be removed along with any liners and windowboards, then the window put in place.

traditional timber box sash windows usually have about 25mm of the outer casing showing- see link below

https://woodenwindows.com/how-to-measure-a-sliding-sash-window.html

fitting the windows in between rather than behind is not necessarily wrong, it depends on what was agreed. fitting the windows from the inside and replacing all the liners means quite a bit of redecoration work and possibly needs new bespoke architrave mouldings to be produced if they dont come off ok. The install on such a job is quite expensive.

I mostly make joinery for period properties and Ive learnt to do drawings for every job, with all the relevant details as its the only sure way of informing the customer exactly what they are getting.

 

[ToastyToes]

Did he fit them from the inside or outside?

Im only looking on a buggered screen but my guess is they shouldve been measured to fit behind the brickwork, not in between.

Im wondering if he has measured them for internal box size and has ordered external box size -Im not sure on upvc ordering methods, Im a wood man and in wood box sashes can be ordered in 2 diff ways.......

Ive had a look on the pc now -Im wondering if when the upvc casements were fitted, the original weight boxes were left in place and the new sliders have been measured to the same.

the inside detail might tell a bit more -do you have the original architrave around each window? -traditional box sashes had to be fitted from the inside because they were wider than the external brickwork and the box frames pushed up against the back of the external brickwork -ie in the cavity (internal brickwork is therefore wider).

To fit replacements to achieve similar sightlines, would require the architrave to be removed along with any liners and windowboards, then the window put in place.

traditional timber box sash windows usually have about 25mm of the outer casing showing- see link below

https://woodenwindows.com/how-to-measure-a-sliding-sash-window.html

fitting the windows in between rather than behind is not necessarily wrong, it depends on what was agreed. fitting the windows from the inside and replacing all the liners means quite a bit of redecoration work and possibly needs new bespoke architrave mouldings to be produced if they dont come off ok. The install on such a job is quite expensive.

I mostly make joinery for period properties and Ive learnt to do drawings for every job, with all the relevant details as its the only sure way of informing the customer exactly what they are getting.

I actually removed all the render and trim from inside the house first so they could measure the actual frame as we are renovating the house and getting it plastered.

Update:

I've spoken to the guy and he was very apologetic and ensured he will resolve the issues.

The only thing he isn't sure about fixing is the trim between the wall and window as the wall is very wavy.
I suggested he removes it and I point the wall to cover the gap but he said due to uPVC shrinking, it would cause a small gap between the cement and window.

Any suggests to resolve this?? Pic below regarding this:

 

[SirGalahad]

but when it happens, you just have to do the right thing and replace whatevers wrong.

Well that's because you're a nice guy.

Im a wood man

Are you?

 

[conny]

I once saw a Victorian terrace being updated under a government grant scheme. After they had installed the windows behind the front brickwork the plasterers moved in and plastered all the walls, (somebody didn't think it through first!). Then the sparks and plumbers moved in, (can you see where this is going yet?). Sparks and plasterers channelled out the new plasterwork with angle grinders and to clear the dust they decided to open a few windows. That's when they discovered they had been fitted back to front and opened into the rooms! You had to go outside to open them! LOL.
The whole refurb was an absolute joke and the company doing the work never got paid by the council. It had to be ripped out again and new builders moved in.