Obsolete Honeywell valves

[brucek]

Sorry about the detailed intro but I'd welcome some suggestions if that's okay.
My Ideal Concorde CX 240P (Propane) gives off a loud 'pop' every time it shuts down. It's been doing it for a long time but now seems to be getting worse. Frequently the popping blows out the pilot light which is really annoying, especially as we run a B&B and guests complain when the heating isn't coming through.
Legally I have to have an annual inspection from a qualified engineer and this year when he came he took the front off the combustion chamber to have a look. Without the front on the flame shut down perfectly but as soon as he put the front on it started popping again when it went out. Fortunately, though it's quite a bang the engineer said it wasn't dangerous.
He tested the pressure which was okay, and a visual inspection of the burners showed nothing wrong so he suggested, as a long shot, that it might be a fault with the gas control valve not cutting off cleanly. He told me that if I could track one down he'd be prepared to come and fit a new control valve but he didn't want to go to the expense of buying one, only to find it hadn't cured the problem. I've searched online but unfortunately the valve (V4400D 1011) is now discontinued and Honeywell aren't very forthcoming about an alternative.
On another forum somebody suggested I should get a new boiler but I'd prefer to investigate possible fixes first.
1) Has anybody any other suggestions as to what might be causing the popping? If it works okay with the front off might that mean that there's either too much LPG or not enough air when the front is on? Might the jets have become enlarged? It's quite an old boiler and they've never been replaced.
2) Since I can't buy a new gas control valve can I get the solenoids replaced and if so where would I buy them? Would they be the same solenoids as those on a V4400C, which looks an identical valve but apparently is for mains gas only?
Thanks for your help.
BK
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[ianmcd]

I have seen them for sale but they are about £500 so not really worth spending that on that boiler, not so sure that is what the problem is, but your engineer has seen the boiler and the problem so would never disagree with him

 

[brucek]

Thanks for the quick response ianmcd. Of course, if the boiler can't be fixed then it will be replaced, but it seems new boilers don't last that long and I'd like to keep this one going if I can.
I didn't mean to give the impression that I was disagreeing with the engineer ~ far from it ~ but he genuinely wasn't sure and was open enough to tell me so. I was just wondering whether anyone else had experienced this problem and if so had managed to resolve it. I remember many years ago, my mum had an old calor gas burned which popped and she just fiddled around with the air inlet. Not that I'm suggesting that as a solution here.

 

[Grumpy Gasman]

Employ the services of someone who knows what they are doing.
A simple check can be carried out which will confirm whether the gas valve is causing the issue or not.
Did your ‘gas-man’ carry out the appropriate checks eliminating the most common cause for light-back/popping?

 

[ianmcd]

Employ the services of someone who knows what they are doing.
A simple check can be carried out which will confirm whether the gas valve is causing the issue or not.
Did your ‘gas-man’ carry out the appropriate checks eliminating the most common cause for light-back/popping?

Not often that I disagree with you Grumpy, but that is a bit harsh I feel , sounds to me that the lad seems to be a decent lad , he has offered the op to buy it and he will fit it, think we both have an idea what it will be but we cant say on here, and I would never argue with someone that had seen the job unless blatently obvious that they were to totally wrong, I dont agree that this lad has done that and he has seen the job we havent

 

[Grumpy Gasman]

Not often that I disagree with you Grumpy, but that is a bit harsh I feel , sounds to me that the lad seems to be a decent lad , he has offered the op to buy it and he will fit it, think we both have an idea what it will be but we cant say on here, and I would never argue with someone that had seen the job unless blatently obvious that they were to totally wrong, I dont agree that this lad has done that and he has seen the job we havent

Ian, a test carried out @ P2 would have confirmed whether the gas valve was passing or reluctant to close.
I don’t believe there is a ‘qualified engineer’ involved, my gut feeling being brucek is the ‘qualified engineer’.

 

[ianmcd]

To be honest mate I see lots of actually "qualified" engineers that havent a clue, more so with older appliances, the red and white button gas valve will be a dalek to lots

 

[Grumpy Gasman]

To be honest mate I see lots of actually "qualified" engineers that havent a clue, more so with older appliances, the red and white button gas valve will be a dalek to lots

In that case ‘employ the services of someone who knows what they are doing’.

 

[ianmcd]

In that case ‘employ the services of someone who knows what they are doing’.

we are singing from the same Hymn sheet here mate, but with all the , "trusted trader " shoite and all the rest of them how do the public know they are getting a decent service , Manus will give a list of those who fit the most of their products , it is hard for Joe public to find out who is the best to call

 

[Grumpy Gasman]

, it is hard for Joe public to find out who is the best to call

I agree but in this instance the OP brucek hasn’t even tried.

 

[brucek]

Not being a specialist myself, Grumpy,

I wouldn't be as presumptuous as to watch over his shoulder while he worked so I'​

m not sure what appropriate checks he did. I'd suspected gas pressure to be the cause so asked him to bring his manometer and he said the pressure was okay and he was checking the flame height and colour when I went to fetch coffee. He also told me the burners looked okay too and he seemed genuinely surprised when the 'extinction pop' happened after he'd replaced the front. He's a qualified & experienced engineer who spends most of his time travelling up and down the country servicing catering equipment, I believe. There don't appear to be many commercial LPG specialists, not in this area anyway, so I'm just grateful he turns up each year to test & service my LPG equipment. I have 3 boilers, a cooker and a grill; I need the annual certification and I've had no reason to suspect he doesn't know what he's doing. If there's a basic diagnostic test then I'm sure he'll have carried it out.
Not to worry. I hadn't realised I was asking anyone to share information which they're unable to divulge for professional reasons. I mainly wanted to know about the control valve really ~ and to save myself the cost of a new boiler of course.

 

[Dan Robinson]

I'm half tempted to open my magic blue box.... There's alsorts of old gas valves and PCBs in there.

Load of Jynx 1 daughter boards and a few Puma ones. Vaguely remember converting an "e" version to work on a PP boiler in the dim and distant past. Haven't worked on many Concordes though.

Still have some WMs chugging along though. Mainly because they're a bastad to get off the flue housing .

 

[Dan Robinson]

I hadn't realised I was asking anyone to share information which they're unable to divulge for professional reasons

There's a forum rule for gas advise. Hence some of our posts are cryptic and seemingly harsh. Plus, all us gas men are grumpy bastads this time of year.

 

[ianmcd]

There's a forum rule for gas advise. Hence some of our posts are cryptic and seemingly harsh. Plus, all us gas men are grumpy bastads this time of year.

I am always grumpy

 

[brucek]

Well Grumpy, thanks for that. No I'm not a qualified engineer and wouldn't pretend to be. If you'd like me to pm you with the engineer's name and contact number I can do that so you can check out his credentials for yourself. Do you really think I'd put my whole business (been running since 1986 now) at risk by trying to pass myself off as a qualified engineer? Funnily enough I did look around before I first asked this chap to come and there were two possibilities who came up online. One didn't even bother to reply to my 'phone message. Perhaps it was some grumpy sod who didn't even believe I had a boiler at all eh!