outdoor electrics

[welshgaz]

Ok so i've got an outdoor socket that is plugged into a normal socket indoors via an RCD plug. It's one of those DIY outdoor sockets from B&Q.

What I want now is to extend this so that I can have a further double socket at the end of the yard.

I'm happy with using IP rated sockets etc, but was wondering if it would be possible to remove the power to the original socket, feed it into a suitable junction box with a connector block inside, and then wire the exisiting socket from that also add the new socket from the junction box.

Assuming that the loads etc on the cables and the RCD plug inside are all in order (only for decking/garden lights) then should this be OK?

Thanks
Gaz

 

[ban-all-sheds]

Why not do it properly?

Ideally a separate circuit from the CU, but failing that an FCU supplying all the outside ones. If your existing socket circuit is not RCD protected, then use an RCD FCU.

However you do it, the bulk of the work will be the same - safely installing armoured cable, glanding it properly at each end, and, of course, notifying your local council before you start.

 

[ericmark]

It is permitted to use pre-fabricated units in special locations like kitchens. However I am not sure of the rules when used outside? The rules are rather hard to follow where if I use a 4 way extension lead in my kitchen that's OK but if I fix two screws to keep it out of any water on the counter top and use a few cable clips to tidy up cable then I need to register under Part P.

With such odd rules it is hard to say what requires Part P registration and what escapes the net.

Likely you can fit a double socket and have two B&Q pre-fabricated extension leads but you will not be allowed to alter them in any way.

Forgetting about Part P regulations I would agree with BAS that some SWA (Steel wire armoured) cable and a proper socket for outside is a better option. Because of what is available at reasonable price often what seems the senseable root is not always the best when one considers price. I have a FCU (fused connection unit) wired wrong way around to connect a 13A plug to the SWA and the 13A plug is plugged into a 10ma RCD as I could not find any 10ma RCD's at the time to fit in an enclosure.

So often one does not follow convention. But mine was done well before 2004 and there was no Part P.

Plug-in RCD's and RCD's built into the Plug are in general a lot cheaper than those which fit in enclosures however most of them are the active type. Where those fitted in enclosures are passive type.

Active auto trips with power failure.

An RCD will not stop you getting a shock with a line - neutral fault and so cable does need protecting. Many people will verify that when they cut through the lawn mower lead the trip did not work and so I would say it is likely worth getting the job done right and before doing DIY get a quote and see if it's really worth DIY.

Cymru Am Byth Eric

 

[ban-all-sheds]

With such odd rules it is hard to say what requires Part P registration and what escapes the net.

It's all in Schedule 2B.

I have a FCU (fused connection unit) wired wrong way around to connect a 13A plug to the SWA and the 13A plug is plugged into a 10ma RCD

I can't picture that.

Or rather I can, but what I picture is a widowmaker, and I know you wouldn't have done that, so I'm getting it wrong.

 

[paulbanco]

I wouldn't recommend installing fixed outdoor sockets via a plug in RCD for the simple fact someone could remove the plug in and go direct into an mcb protected socket.

That is a REAL widowmaker. Anything outside of the equipotential zone is potentially lethal. Don't take a chance.

Install an RCD protected FSU and wire from there.

Oh, and yes, an RCD does not protect from a live neutral fault, and that also could be dangerous if the Ze is high enough for the mcb not to see the fault and cause a fire, but no danger of electrocution, so long as there is an RCD in the circuit.

 

[ericmark]

With such odd rules it is hard to say what requires Part P registration and what escapes the net.

It's all in Schedule 2B.

I was referring to

(c) pre-fabricated equipment sets and associated flexible leads with integral plug and socket connections.

How ever the regulations are out of date and refer to BS7671:2001 not BS7671:2008 and with for example the bathroom this would make quite a difference. As no longer a zone 3 in bathrooms.

I have a FCU (fused connection unit) wired wrong way around to connect a 13A plug to the SWA and the 13A plug is plugged into a 10ma RCD

I can't picture that.

Or rather I can, but what I picture is a widowmaker, and I know you wouldn't have done that, so I'm getting it wrong.

OK not very well put. I of course wired feed to feed etc. But used cable grip to allow a feed flex into box rather than feed out of box using the metal-clad box as a good place to gland the SWA cable to. 13A was an ample feed and since whole house was on 30ma I wanted to reduce this for supply outside and metal-clad 10ma RCD sockets were available but supplier did not have any other 10ma RCD's in stock. Even now looking here for example 10ma RCBO is only available in 6 and 10 amp versions. Units are now becoming available but not back when I originally wired my shed. Even now going to local supplier 10ma RCD's are hard to find. And the one shown is listed as £103.71 ExVat which to me is a little OTT.

 

[ban-all-sheds]

How ever the regulations are out of date and refer to BS7671:2001 not BS7671:2008 and with for example the bathroom this would make quite a difference. As no longer a zone 3 in bathrooms.

The Building Regulations are not out of date - they are what they are.

The changes in BS 7671 make no difference to the Building Regulations because they still define a special location in terms of 16th zones. The fact that the 17th changes the definition of the zones does not mean that the 16th definitions no longer exist, and does not change or invalidate the definition of "special location" in the Building Regulations.