Overfow of cistern not working

[peter1234]

URGENT HELP WITH A MALFUNCTIONING Armigage Shanks Cistern
I would be grateful if you could help me as soon as possible. I have searched in the Internet for the model of the cistern I have in my house. The attached file contains a photography that seems to be closest to it. It is rather cylindrical with the handle on the side.

The overflow for the cistern is connected with the overflow for the bath tub. When the cistern is full the inlet remains opened and water runs into the overflow pipe, out from the overflow whole for the bath tub, along the white thin pipe below the cistern (overflow pipe), onto the floor and along the seating room walls in the ground floor of the house. The wall is saturated. The cistern has not been working for about two weeks.

Inside the tank I found a small clear plastic bag type of thing (looks like a tiny condom). It is torn on one side and bottom

I do not believe there are cracks in the pipes. In my inexperienced estimation the damaged parts are:
- The long plastic bag is torn along the side and bottom
- Whatever closes the water inlet for the cistern does not work
- The connections between the cistern and the overflow pipe may not be completely sealed. ( I have placed a blue cloth to show the direction of the water flow out of the cistern)
A plumber may come tomorrow and I need to know, as soon as possible, what fittings have to be replaced, and which make or specification I have to buy to ensure the new fittings are suitable for the porcelain container.

Finally, how much the repair of the cistern could cost?

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[adlplumbing]

you can isolate the toilet with vavle next to the over flow white plastic turn it so it horzontal

 

[peter1234]

Thank you for your prompt response. I am not sure I understand what you mean:
1 - Do you mean that I can make the toilet overflow independent from the bath tub overflow?
2 - or that I can close the flow of water into the tank completely by closing the valve fitted on the cold water pipe that feed water to the cistern?
If what you mean is (2), I would have to do that immediately until the cistern is repaired.

Do you have any comments on what I would have to do to repair the cistern? Would I have to replace all the fittings inside?

 

[muggles]

The overflow for the cistern should not be connected to the bath's overflow, it should be run through the wall and terminate outside. If it's leaking at the point where the overflow pipe joins into the cistern it may just need tightening up a bit.

The long plastic bag used to be attached to your fill valve (water inlet). As your fill valve probably needs replacing, this will no longer be needed. Your plumber will know what you need and probably have a valve he prefers to use, the material used to make the cistern is of no relevance. I personally like the FluidMaster Pro fill valves (if you want to buy one yourself) but your plumber will happily fit whatever he has on his van. Cost will of course depend on time taken, the parts requiring replacement/repair, and who supplies those parts. As your overflow is incorrectly run and leaking I would be looking to suggest that you also replace your siphon for one with an internal overflow and blank off the existing overflow, thereby eliminating the need to faff around attempting to seal it up and also to drill a hole in the wall.

 

[Nige F]

overflow can connect to a manifold on the bath a common thing to do in flats etc. Pipes shouldn`t leak but you are in London The plastic bag was a silencing tube on the torbeck inlet valve . To change all the gubbins and fit a sensible 2 part syphon will cost near £50 for the parts and @ least the same again labour in London . A few bits in Eastbourne cost me £30 FFS for my Sis in Law`s wc. You don`t need a Gas Safe engineer, you might just find a plumber

 

[muggles]

overflow can connect to a manifold on the bath

New one on me, presumably in this situation it needs to have a tundish otherwise the overflow might not be spotted for ages

 

[dennyboy]

yes - they are pretty common in flats to be connected to the bath overflow although most new cisterns have the combined syphon/overflow - and is it just me but I'm not a big lover of the torbeck valves? - they seem to cross-thread as soon as you take them out of the packet and the thread seems slightly longer than normal - cant beat the fluidmaster with the brass thread for bottom entry jobbies - I wouldnt bother changing the syphon - we all know what its like if you need to source the correct close-couple kit - the overflow pipe should be checked though, a tenner bet the nut hasnt been tightened or the joints glued

 

[muggles]

Yeah brass-shanked FMs much better, I've had a few Torbecks not work out of the packet before now as well, and yeah they're a bu99er to get connected

 

[gasbanni]

Thank you for your prompt response. I am not sure I understand what you mean:
1 - Do you mean that I can make the toilet overflow independent from the bath tub overflow?
2 - or that I can close the flow of water into the tank completely by closing the valve fitted on the cold water pipe that feed water to the cistern?
If what you mean is (2), I would have to do that immediately until the cistern is repaired.

Do you have any comments on what I would have to do to repair the cistern? Would I have to replace all the fittings inside?

yes it would stop the leak !

 

[gasbanni]

sorry point 2 !

 

[gasbanni]

valve can be fixed with a washer £1 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thats it. Leak need to see where its leaking from.

1 turn oval headed valve horiziontal just above blue paper towel.
2.Flush loo undo the large horizontal plastic nut at end of the arm
dismantle valve seperate the bits fit a new seal refit everything in reverse order 2 minutes.

Checkyour work by only opening valve a liitle bit until youve checked it and happy that everythings ok

 

[Nige F]

overflow can connect to a manifold on the bath

New one on me, presumably in this situation it needs to have a tundish otherwise the overflow might not be spotted for ages

Didn`t explain there is a manifold - Marley I think - where the wc overflow comes out from the bath o/f grating and the bath overflows under it - in effect the bath could have the plug in , then fill completely from the wc. then overflow as normal Now the syphons in wc are lower so you get an internal overflow to wc pan

 

[peter1234]

Finally, I have stopped water flow into the cistern by closing the valve under it. I am most grateful for all suggestions given. I have put them together to be sure I am not missing any important step.

1. Turn oval headed valve horizontal just above blue paper towel.
2. Flush loo undo the large horizontal plastic nut at end of the arm
3. Dismantle valve separate the bits fit a new seal refit everything in reverse order 2 minutes.
4. Fill valve probably needs replacing (suggested luidmaster Pro Bottom Entry Fill Valve £11.8+vat).
5. Overflow is leaking replace siphon for one with an internal overflow and blank off the existing overflow.
6. Check your work by only opening valve a little bit until you’ve checked it and happy that everything ok.
I have two final question:
1. There are 3 holes at the bottom of the cistern. Two on the left hand side, at the back for the overflow pipe and at the front for the entry valve. On the right hand side there is one for the siphon. Are the fittings for the siphon and the Pro Bottom Entry Fill Valve of standard size, regardless of the make?
2. When the overflow pipe becomes redundant and the whole is blanked off, the white thin pipe that connects the overflow for the cistern and the overflow for the bath tub will still be in place. Since the connections are behind the bath tub panel is it possible to seal the white pipe at the end below the cistern?