Painting over oil based with water based

[Sparky2520]

hi there,

I am not by any means a profesional painter but i like to have a go at all trades, being in the trade myself, im an electrician.

I have been having massive problems with Dulux the past few months with there oil based paints. I am painting my skirtings/ facings and they are now all yellow, to cut a long story short i have been offered a 5l tin of Sikkens Rubbol Satura, which i beleive is water based.

My question is, what is the best way to prepair the skirting's, facing's and doors before i put water based paints over oild based?

I have read a good sand down to give the water based a good key will be fine and was also told this by dulux technical but i am a bit concerned about the doors as they are not solid wood, they are wood grain affect and obviously if i sand too much the affect will dissapear or i will end up with a hole in the door if i really was silly.

I would appresiate any advice you could give me as this will be the 3rd time in total i will have to go around all of it again.

Thanks

 

[kp7722]

A light rub down, Dulux Super Grip, and then your top coat should do the trick. Haven't done it myself but I do have the same problem. Dulux gloss has gone very yellow due to lack of light. Now going to be using water-based in all the other rooms...

Paul.

 

[elrobbo82]

i would still recommend using oil based gloss as it has a far superior gloss finish. Yes i understand that oil based tends to yellow quickly and water based doesn't. the problem that i have found with water based glosses is the very fast drying times (leaving dry edges and brush marks) and low gloss finish (even though they are improving). you mentioned that your doors have a grained effect, are they the light weight molded panel doors? if they are you can still sand them down with a fine sandpaper i would recommend 240 grade wet and dry using water for sanding. this will give a good key for adhesion for a water based system. i would also recommend that after the undercoat stage to apply 2 coats of water based gloss as i have found that this gives a higher gloss finish.

 

[Sparky2520]

I have decided to stear clear of oil based at the moment as it has compleatly ruined the two rooms i have done.

I have been offered a tin of sikkens rubbol satura BL (water based), after speaking to a few painters they have suggested i should apply a acrylic undercoat before i apply the sikkens as i am painting onto an oil based finish. Obviously i will be sanding well before i apply anything. Does anyone have any thaughts on using an acrylic undercoat before the sikkens?

Thanks

 

[dcdec]

The sikkens is in my opinion the best there is at the moment for water based primer u/c and the satura.

Their primer undercoat is

http://www.decoratingdirect.co.uk/viewprod/s/SIKRBLP/

Its really good and have been using it this very day. Use a good quality synthetic brush and try not to mess around with it too much. its been very warm today and i had no problems with it drying on me to fast although i was doing skirtings and architraves mainly but never felt tacky at all during app.

The satura is excellent and gives an oil like finish.

Gloss wise i have tried johnstones aqua -gloss. Did and architrave first and during application it felt like acrylic wood primer, didn't seem to have much body so i layed off as well as i could and left it to dry. I would say its impossible to apply with out brush marks but most of these dissappeared as the paint levelled out and dried, it did leave one or two that wern't to obvious but for me thats not good enough. The gloss level is quite impressive for WB but i decide to put a second coat on out of interest. Started to apply and it turned in to the ropiest bit of painting i've ever seen let alone done, i couldn't envisage the paint being able to level out to the degree needed so i wiped it off and decided to do the door. Its a moulded 6 panel mdf door and the gloss covered well but again despite my best efforts there was still one or two brush marks and it absolutely stank for about three days.
I think johnstones are close and the paint may work with some floetrol added, by why should we have to buy an additive? and the second coat was a nightmare

I've just got some caparol which i'll be trying next week.

As far as i'm concerned oil based paints are dying and i am trying to avoid them now as they cant be relied on not to yellow so i'm just doing lots of reading and experimenting with products to see what works for me

 

[Sparky2520]

Thank you very much dc dec, i think i have come to the conclusion also never to go near oil based again.... dulux oil based anyway, i plan to apply an acrylic undercoat then apply the satura and hopefully i will have the finnish i am looking for. The satura arrvies on Monday so time will tell, i will be applying the acrylic over the weekend to try and get back onto schedule again, getting so behind because of Dulux

 

[dcdec]

Yep Dulux really sucks at the moment

 

[RMS]

i understand that oil based tends to yellow quickly and water based doesn't.

elrobbo,

I have used Dulux oil based satin finish on my wood work at home. I have noticed that parts of the wood work that is covered by furniture and less likely to be exposed to sun light turns more yellow.

For example, the inside of a cupboard door will be substantially more yellow than the outside that is exposed to the sun light.

Why is this?

 

[Sparky2520]

RMS, the reason the inside of a cupboard yellows quicker is because there is no/ less UV light (Sun/ daylight) keeping the paint nice and white. To provent this use water based.

well i will get a start to applying the water based primer tomorow as i have just sat down from sanding since this afternoon, i have lost the enjoyment in painting now,,,, thanks Dulux

 

[dcdec]

Sparky, did 7 doors in the sikkens BL today and very happy with it. Was a really warm day but as long as you return to your wet edges regularly it does not start to set up on you, in fact i thought it stayed open slighltly longer than oil based.

 

[Sparky2520]

sounds good dcdec, im shatterd like, i have sanded all the hall and wet/ dry sanded both sides of 5 doors, 2 more doors to do tomorow then i can paint for a bit...... sikkens bl arrives monday so ill get all the prep done in the mean time so i can get the house back to some normality.

 

[elrobbo82]

RMS
oil based paint turns yellow for several different reasons. it can depend on what is in the paint and where it is. ammonia can cause paint to yellow, a good test to check how likely a paint is to yellow and the speed is to place a little ammonia in a sealed container and place a paint sample on a string and secure it above the ammonia for 3-4 days to see the reaction and if you do this for a few different paint samples you will be able to see which one will stay white for longer. a theory for the inside of cupboard doors going more yellow is that there is less air flow to move the reactive parts of the air around hence yellowing of the paint.

 

[starspark]

el robbo have you copied this?
As this seems extremely similar ie word for word explanation to this...
http://www.diychatroom.com/f4/white-paint-turning-yellow-9211/

el robbo it is very easy searching for this kind of thing but actually knowing it is a different matter!

mybe next time just include the link rather than seemingly taking the credit from someone elses experience.

 

[elrobbo82]

starspark
i am new to these types of forum and am unaware of how to add a link. i felt that this was a topic that i could research for my own vested interest and i could help our RMS as well. im sorry you feel that this is unacceptable i can only apolagise. maybe you could use your vast knowledge in this field to help out other members solve there decorating problems.

 

[starspark]

elrobbo,
my knowledge is very limited on painting and decorating.
I just like to peruse the forum in general to increase my knowledge overall. Upon reading this interesting topic i found that your answer seemed exactly like a one i had read recently on another forum.
All i am saying is its not really fair to pretend u have certain knowledge of things when you do not by stealing other peoples expertise and experience etc.
I accept your apology elrobbo,very gracious of you.I understand your etiquette may not be up to scratch yet.
welcome to the forum.