Part P and building control

[b33k34]

Really your best bet is to employ a registered spark to redo the work. That's my advice - take it or leave it.

I am fast coming to that conclusion. You live and you learn.

So, back to the original question - Can anyone recommend a South London electrician? The handwritten note from BC just refers to "Electrical Cert" so I will seek clarification direct - I'd thought I might find out what this was here.

For my future reference, is there any way to legally do your own electrical work any more? I consider myself more than competent, I understand the technical aspects of it and, if I can find them, I can follow a set of regulations (lets ignore my misunderstanding this time).

 

[RossR]

Can anyone recommend a South London electrician?

I'm sorry I can't but hopefully someone else can.

The handwritten note from BC just refers to "Electrical Cert" so I will seek clarification direct - I'd thought I might find out what this was here.

Probably an Electrical Installation Certificate or Minor Electrical Installation Works Certificate to say the work complies with The Wiring Regulations BS7671. Clarifying can't hurt though.

For my future reference, is there any way to legally do your own electrical work any more? I consider myself more than competent, I understand the technical aspects of it and, if I can find them, I can follow a set of regulations (lets ignore my misunderstanding this time).

It is possible, but to be honest the council's don't encourage it. There are a couple of routes, but they are rarely financially viable. The one exception is if you where doing a major job, such as a full rewire, at the same time as some other building work. You just let them know, when you notify the building work, that you intend to do the electrics yourself. With your council this would cost £350 in extra fees, which might be worth it.

The other route, just for your reference, is to become registered with one of the Competent Persons schemes (Elecsa, NAPIT or NICEIC). This has various costs including a membership fee of ~£500. Total could easily exceed £1000. It doesn't make sense financially, unless it is your full time job. It's also expected that the minimum qualifications for this will be increased later this year, which will make this an even less attractive route.

 

[Paul_C]

Everything is notifiable by default, unless it falls under one of the exemptions.

There is an exemption for work which—

(a)is not in a kitchen, or a special location;

(b)does not involve work on a special installation; and

(c)consists of—

(i)adding light fittings and switches to an existing circuit, or

(ii)adding socket outlets and fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit.

That doesn't cover smoke alarms though and I can't see one that does.

How about if the smoke alarms are fed from a fused spur?

 

[RossR]

Are smoke alarms socket outlets? Nope.

 

[Paul_C]

No, smoke alarms aren't socket outlets, but I would read the exemption in (c)(ii) as being for the addition of sockets or fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit.

 

[RossR]

No, smoke alarms aren't socket outlets, but I would read the exemption in (c)(ii) as being for the addition of sockets or fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit.

Agreed. It allows the addition of fused spurs to an existing ring or radial circuit without notification. The only things it mentions can be connected to them however are socket outlets and lighting points.

It isn't sufficient for part of the work to come under an exemption, all of it must.

In any case, the exemption is only on notification. As BC are already on the scene, they are perfectly entitled to check compliance with Part P1 of the building regulations.

 

[Paul_C]

The only things it mentions can be connected to them however are socket outlets and lighting points.

I don't see where it says that. The exemption in c(i) allows for the addition of light fittings and/or switches to an existing circuit. The exemption in c(ii) allows for the addition of socket outlets and/or fused spurs to an existing circuit. Where does it place any limitation on what the fused spur may feed?

I suppose it could be interpreted that the exemption in c(ii) covers the fitting of the FCU itself, but not anything which is connected to that FCU (unless a light or socket outlet), but what sense would it make to exempt from notification the fitment of an FCU but not the apparatus which is intended to be connected to it?

(Although I'm the first to admit that the list of notifiable vs. non-notifiable work has been full of inconsistencies since the start.)

 

[RossR]

Where does it place any limitation on what the fused spur may feed?

It's doesn't explicitly limit it, but it doesn't have to. By default everything is notifiable.

The only way round that I could see is if the equipment fed from the fused spur was not regarded as part of the installation. That's hard to argue for multiple interlinked smoke alarms however.

 

[Paul_C]

I guess it comes down to just how much is considered to be a part of the fused spur as referred to in the exemption in (c)(ii).

If, for example, you run a cable from an existing socket to a switched FCU, then on to a flex outlet plate for a wall-mounted heater, how much of that addition would you consider to be included within the definition of fused spur?

 

[ban-all-sheds]

I suppose it could be interpreted that the exemption in c(ii) covers the fitting of the FCU itself, but not anything which is connected to that FCU (unless a light or socket outlet), but what sense would it make to exempt from notification the fitment of an FCU but not the apparatus which is intended to be connected to it?

It would make perfect sense.

If an FCU introduced a break point, downstream of which nothing was notifiable, then someone could get around the requirement to notify, for example, kitchen lights or a bathroom towel rail simply by putting the FCU outside the location.

Clearly this would be nonsensical. Whatever is downstream of an FCU is governed by exactly the same requirements for what is upstream.

 

[Paul_C]

If an FCU introduced a break point, downstream of which nothing was notifiable, then someone could get around the requirement to notify, for example, kitchen lights or a bathroom towel rail simply by putting the FCU outside the location.

No, because the part within the kitchen or bathroom would not meet the requirement for exemption in 2(a) - "Is not in a kitchen, or a special location."

 

[ban-all-sheds]

So in other words you accept that the presence of an upstream FCU makes no difference to the notifiability of what is downstream from it.

If you think that in the scenario I described the downstream lights or towel rail would be notifiable because of 2(a) then it must also be the case that whatever you add downstream of an FCU is governed by exactly the same requirements as it would be if the FCU was not there.

Any other interpretation would be incredibly illogical, and introduce all sorts of inconsistencies.

So unless you can find an exemption in Schedule 4 for the fitting of smoke alarms then it's notifiable whether there's an FCU or not.

 

[Paul_C]

So in other words you accept that the presence of an upstream FCU makes no difference to the notifiability of what is downstream from it.

No, what I was saying is that whether the lights or heated towel rail in your examples are considered to be part of the fused spur referred to by 2(c)(ii) is immaterial, because being located in a kitchen and a bathroom they don't meet the exemption requirement of 2(a) and would therefore be notifiable either way.

If you think that in the scenario I described the downstream lights or towel rail would be notifiable because of 2(a) then it must also be the case that whatever you add downstream of an FCU is governed by exactly the same requirements as it would be if the FCU was not there.

Any other interpretation would be incredibly illogical, and introduce all sorts of inconsistencies.

There are already many inconsistencies in the list of notifiable vs. non-notifiable works.

What do you consider the term "fused spur" as used in 2(c)(ii) to include? Just the branch cable from the existing circuit up to the FCU? I'm sure that's not what most people would take it to mean, but if that were the definition, then the wiring from the FCU to an outlet plate and the connection from that to a wall heater would not come under the exemption and would be notifiable. Yet if you ran exactly the same cable from the FCU to a socket and plugged the heater into that socket, it would be exempt under the "socket outlets" provision of 2(c)(ii). Isn't that also incredibly illogical?

 

[RossR]

IMO the exemption is clearly intended to cover a fused spur with only socket outlets fed from it, nothing else. If the intention had been to include a fused spur feeding any electrical equipment, it would be phrased differently.

 

[STI]

No this cant be right. So people are saying that notification is required for adding a device onto a fused spur in whatever room you happen to do it so a panel heater needs to be notified, an extractor fan in any room needs to be notified a fan heater. No it cant be true, if it is the nanny states gone mad.