Part P

[fattony]

I dont get involved with domestic installations so this is a question for those who are registered with Part P.

If I was to install a fuse spur which is part of an existing circuit in a detached garage what Part P requirements should I be following?

I know before you undertake any electrical work in a domestic dwelling you must check the gas and main water bonding, if this isn't in place it must be before any other work can commence, but a garage isn't a domestic dwelling.

 

[dingbat]

The only 'Part P requirements' are that all the work is carried out safely (and this can be satisfied by working to BS7671) and that the work is notified, because this is notifiable work.

And your detached garage, although not a habitable room, is still a part of the dwelling to which it belongs and is covered by the Building Regulations, of which Part P is, er... a part.

You need to consider the integrity of the earthing and bonding to the property. Also the condition and loading of the circuit you wish to spur from. The electrical load and type of load you are supplying and whether you need to provide RCD protection' and if so, is discrimination going to be an issue. Volt drop. The type of cable and means of mechanical protection/support/environmental protection for the run to the garage.

Supplies to detached outbuildings are rarely straightforward in electrical terms.

 

[fattony]

Ah may have mislead you a little dingbat, yes the garage is part of a domestic dwellin which is covered by part p, guess that answers my question.

Basically my father in laws sparks has left and asked me to fit a couple of spurs for electric garage doors / gates. Correct me if Im wrong but the spur doesn't require RCD protection as its not for portable appliances?!

There is always a fuse board in the garage with a couple of sockets, what he wants is a fused spur installed next to an existing socket. Easy work, until you go down the route of 'can i has a look at you gas meter madam' Does Part P require you to look at all bonding before work commences?

Dont tell me that part p would require you to upgrade the fuseboard if it was rewirable fuses etc, or one little spur will go from like £80 to £400

How do you find customers react to this? most of them probably think your trying to rip them off.

As i said im not up to speed with part p reqs cos i dont usually do domestic dwellings, try to avoid them to be honest.

 

[cozycats]

If it is an attached garage it is not part p notifiable anyway, (docp april2006) If you just intend to add a switched fused spur to an existing circuit in a garage detached or not it is not notifiable and the installation of an rcd is not req (although preferable) But yes earthing arrangements should be up to standards
I think thats right but every time I blink theyve moved the fences!

 

[fattony]

Thats what I mean its such a grey area, I fitted one last month and the customer got really funny when I asked to see the gas meter, stop cock etc. How far do you go with it have a look behind the bath panel? Its a bloody joke.

 

[dingbat]

Fat Tony, you've really got to get out of the habit of saying things like 'part P regs'

The most straightforward way of complying with the Building Regulations (for this is what P is a part of) is to follow the guidance in the Approved Document. And despite the obfuscation of so many posters, here and elsewhere, the guidance effectively says 'work to BS 7671'. So, to all intents and purposes nothing has changed, except that now there's a means of monitoring such work.

Modification of circuits in a detached garage is notifiable, so notify and comply with the LABC's instructions. Or employ a registered electrician, who will do all this for you.

My customers listen to my advice as to what needs to be done and then either accept my quote or get in a *****. Nothing has changed in this regard either and I still get the majority of jobs I quote for. It helps a great deal to be confident in your knowledge and uncompromising in your approach.

 

[dingbat]

...every time I blink theyve moved the fences!

The last amendment to BS 7671 was March 2004. And that was just colours and safe zones in thin partitions. The fences haven't moved; you've just been prompted to consult the maps a little more closely.

 

[Pensdown]

Fat Tony, you've really got to get out of the habit of saying things like 'part P regs'

The most straightforward way of complying with the Building Regulations (for this is what P is a part of) is to follow the guidance in the Approved Document. And despite the obfuscation of so many posters, here and elsewhere, the guidance effectively says 'work to BS 7671'. So, to all intents and purposes nothing has changed, except that now there's a means of monitoring such work.

Modification of circuits in a detached garage is notifiable, so notify and comply with the LABC's instructions. Or employ a registered electrician, who will do all this for you.

My customers listen to my advice as to what needs to be done and then either accept my quote or get in a *****. Nothing has changed in this regard either and I still get the majority of jobs I quote for. It helps a great deal to be confident in your knowledge and uncompromising in your approach.

Although I agree with 99% of your post things have changed. Because electrical installations within domestic properties now fall within the Building Regulations, Parts A-P have to be considered. The installation must be designed & installed accordingly. That is quite a big change for most DI’s

 

[dingbat]

Interesting comment Pensdown and I can see why you make it. But, in fact, regardless of any specific section of the regulations that may be more applicable than others, all parts of the Building Regulations have always applied to all structures within their scope.

Part P may have drawn attention to compliance with other parts of Building Regulations for electricians, but they haven't just suddenly come into force. I agree it's a change for sparks, but only a change of awareness, not of the requirements.

Tradesmen of all ilks have and will continue to contravene numerous regulations in blissful ignorance. Perhaps every trade needs its own assessment and self-certification body?

 

[Pensdown]

I was thinking more about Part L, and the Conservation of Energy. IMO this does impose new challenges with respect to the overall design and installation.

Tradesmen of all ilks have and will continue to contravene numerous regulations in blissful ignorance. Perhaps every trade needs its own assessment and self-certification body?

This subject deserves its own thread.

I for one would love to see other trades regulated in some way. As you said in one of your other posts, up until the introduction of PP most DI’s never carried out any testing whatsoever. This was probably because they didn’t know how to and never owned any test equipment.

I suppose trade cards could be introduced like within the commercial sector here and within all sectors in France. Although we take up personal references on employees we only consider sparks who hold a current JIB-CSCS card. That way we know their qualified to the standard on the card and they have passed the CSCS site H&S exam.

The CSCS scheme that’s being introduced for all trades does seem to be having an effect on what I call “pub tradesman”. Maybe something similar would help in the domestic sector for those people who want to use tradesman?