PARTY WALL DISPUTE

[Johnny crossan]

On 5th August our neighbours served a Party Wall Notice stating they proposed to remove the kitchen chimney breast and put in a raised floor starting on the 17th August. We live in a Victorian villa type semi (1899) 2.5 storeys with a 20' outrigger which contains the party wall affected. On our side the 5' x 2' chimney breast opening has been raised to accomodate a side by side fridge freezer and a 300mm pull out cupbpard. All the hearths above in the first and second floor (in roof space) and the one below in the basement are intact along with the chimney stack. The flues are independent we think but the roof stack is shared. When we did our work to the chimney breast we had a structural engineer's report stating the party wall brickwork was in poor condition and was probably single brick thickness.

In these circumstances we could not agree to the neighbours work without independent supervision and a dispute is now ongoing and surveyors about to be appointed - we want a RICS member so there will probably be two in the end. They still intend their builders starting tomorrow and confidently expect an Award by the end of the week so they can insert the steelwork by then. The neighbours also plan to move out tomorrow to live with in laws 60 miles away.

Reading on the internet it seems that the chimney breast acts as a buttress for the 20' party wall and its removal could weaken the whole house structure or cause the outrigger to completely collapse if demolition causes enough damage. Especially if combined with the insertion of the proposed heavy steel beam and padstones plus new floor joists into the poor condition single brick party wall. All this extra load will inevitably be accompanied by potential severe damage during demolition which would remain unobserved and unrepaired on our side.

Does this whole project present such a risk of serious damage to our property that it should be stopped by the surveyor(s)?

 

[^woody^]

No it's standard and common work.

Chimney's do not act as a buttress (the rest of the PW stays up perfectly well without one, as do any other walls that are built without a chimney), and removal does not weaken the wall. There is no inevitability of severe damage either, or even damage on your side.

If, as per your previous engineer's report the PW is in poor condition (despite that not being the same as in weak condition) then if it impacted on the work then the PW surveyors would pick it up and deal with that as part of the award - and as you will benefit from this new improved wall, then you would be expected to pay your share towards it's improvement.

 

[Johnny crossan]

Thanks Woody, that's helpful but surely, the 20 ' outrigger party wall is supported on both sides by chimney breasts on all 4 floors (including converted roofspace.)

Don't understand why we would have to contribute to making good the party wall if it is damaged. It may be 120 years old with the associated mortar deterioration but that applies to the whole house. Our single brick party wall would probably stand soundly for another 120 years if left undisturbed with all its chimney breasts intact and without new floor joists, padstones and steel beams being inserted on the ground floor.

 

[^woody^]

A 9" party wall is getting support from the external walls, internal walls or floor and ceiling joists, plus the rafters so does not need a chimney for any support. The only issue with removing chimney breasts from one or both sides is when its all removed right into the roof and then the external stack may over-balance - so that's dealt with in one of several ways. So the breast below is not necessary for a stable wall.

Party walls are shared ownership, so whilst if it's damaged by the work of the neighbour, the costs of repairs falls on whoever damages it. But if the wall is in a poor state to start with then one neighbour will be getting an improvement so should contribute to that because they will benefit. It's a fine line, but that's the principle. Otherwise the option is to just do the minimum work to rectify just the part of the wall that needs it and then leave the rest in its poor state.

Don't worry about additional loads or whatever on the wall. The walls will take it, and its not significant.

The only issue is in the carrying out of the work (competent builders) rather than the work itself. Move any china or pictures off the walls or fireplace.

 

[Johnny crossan]

Thanks again Woody. The good news is that they've just revised their plans to remove the chimney breast and apparently just new floor joists in modern brackets screwed to the party wall don't require a PWA - so they don't need to worry about us any more...

 

[Johnny crossan]

I'm worried again if the joists are shared and run through the party wall and will be affected - does that involve the PWA anyway? And even if they leave them in place and add new joists with hangers fixed to the face of the pw instead of being built in - for a new raised kitchen floor on their side - does that extra load bring it in scope of the PWA? Or can they argue in the latter case the extra load is only the weight of the new joists so is not significant in structural terms?