PAT testing system suggestions for 2000+ items

[reds42]

I've just been chatting to the site maintenance guy at my workplace who is considering doing a PAT testing course so he can do the regular testing of all the equipment in my workplace.

He's looking for suggestions on what tester/system people would recommend for the regular testing and auditing of over 2000 items.

I would assume something barcode capable would be helpful when it comes time for a retest, but if anyone who has some experience of PAT testing on that kind of scale has any suggestions on equipment or tips it would be much appreciated.

 

[ericmark]

The inspection and testing of in service electricial equipment cover a massive range, even calling it portable, this would include some thing like a batching plant, which is portable on 22 articulated units.

So easy demarcation is to stipulate supplied with 13 amp plug, not interested in hand driers, central heating boilers or immersion heaters, all you want to do is items with a 13 amp plug.

The administration was a seprate exam to the testing, although rare to do one without the other, and in the administration course it tells you how to record.

It seems when I did my course it is permissible to do a certificate for a whole building i.e. all items in a shop entered on the equipment register have been tested.

However the biggest problem is items not presented for PAT testing, so you need a dated label in most cases to cover for the item locked in a cupboard when testing is done.

In the main best option is to do a tool box talk and explain how it is up to user to present items, and get signatures, the tester can afford to go hunting for items.

 

[crystal ball]

For that many tests get the best, ie most expensive with bells & whistles

 

[mattylad]

He absolutely MUST get a tester that can download it's results, the manual recording is what takes the most time so downloading the results from that many is important.

I do it manually as I test far less, I use the free Kewtech app to record the results and can provide either PDF or spreadsheet of all test results but it takes me ages to enter the results.

A barcode printer and subsequent scanner are bells & whistles but the cost may be worth it if he has to test 2k every year (yes I know it's not required yearly - but employers insist "just to be sure".)

 

[ericmark]

He absolutely MUST get a tester that can download it's results, the manual recording is what takes the most time so downloading the results from that many is important.

Odd you say that, I found the reverse, had my own Robin and works Robin PAT tester and the works was all singing dancing model and mine was manual.

The works unit first tested the supply, so every time you unplugged it the test was done again, the readings need to settle, so there are minimum times for each test, so for it to run through the sequence with a class I items it was around 2.6 minutes, does not sound long, but I was dropped off at a remote hub to do PAT testing so thought lets go for it and see how fast I can do it, I had loads of time before I would be picked up again, but just wanted to see how fast, and I was shocked to see it took 4 minutes a test on average.

So maximum for 8 hour day was 120 items, in real terms looking at 100 items by time it has been unplugged and plugged in again. However with my own PAT tester I could beat that, as I can see when needle has settled so each test faster, and with items like a computer I can enter same results for lead set and computer were with the auto one had to test twice for it to log two sets of results.

The other problem was some one fiddling the results, it recorded the results onto floppy disk, and it used VB, the user had to enter his code, which would result in his name on the print out, but there was no option to then remove the code, without entering another, so we had a code called unidentified that we could enter once we had finished, but every so often some one would forget to enter his code, I realised it was using VB so wrote a short program so I could correct errors when some one forgot to enter their code, however the foreman was caught changing the dates on entries and claiming the items had been re-tested when they had not, so keeping computer records was no good, they all had to be printed and the sheets signed, OK the short print so around 60 items per sheet, but we could not rely on computer records.

The PAT tester would auto select the tests required once the plant number was entered, I came to test a mag mount drill, the drill was class II, the mag mount was class I and it seems it had been tested as all class II for years, so having the data in the PAT tester high lighted an error which other wise could have been missed.

But to plug items in we had a case full of adaptors, 16 amp 110 and 230 volt, 32 amp with change over switch to test all three phases, 5 amp round pin, 15 amp round pin later found an adaptor the ones we tell everyone else are dangerous and should be binned as no fuse or shutter.

But the hand drier was a problem, we had to isolate so much to be able to remove the FCU front, then it needed disconnecting, and some supply found for the PAT testing machine, these are handy for testing items without a plug, but running an extension lead into the toilets was not really the best option to test a hand drier bolted onto the wall, we did them during the holiday week and two electricians were needed to get around the lone working rules, in fact when testing the batching plant it was three electricians for two days for one item, try covering that with a price per item.

This is why I would say PAT testing needs to be in the main restricted to items with a 13 amp plug, yes the inspection and testing of in service electrical equipment covers it all, but there are problems with some items.

Even a frost free freezer or washing machine can cause problems, and anything else with an auto cycle of events, if for example you have a de-frost element your not going to wait for 8 hours for the defrost cycle to kick in, testing neutral to earth will often show faults, but it depends on how that freezer is controlled, so washing machines, tumble driers, frost free freezers and the like, better to have a maintenance contact so the person testing understands the appliance, specially with things like central heating boilers, as some times one needs to be gas safe to remove covers.

The English law for EICR in rented property seems to expect the installation to include any items not readily moved, and it seems they expect the guy doing the EICR to include the immersion heater, however really that is not part of the installation, that is equipment so comes under PAT testing, however unlikely to test it with a PAT testing machine, it is get the installation tester out.

So many places I worked it was agreed that some items would be tested when we did the EICR, OK the results would be recorded in the PAT testing records not the EICR, but they would not be tested using a PAT tester.

The job needs carefully defining, or items can be missed out, it is fine saying hand drier tested when doing the EICR, as long as the guy doing the EICR knows he needs to test it.

 

[RandomGrinch]

He's looking for suggestions on what tester/system people would recommend for the regular testing and auditing of over 2000 items.

I had around 16'000 assets in my database - we have been using Seaward downloadable testers for 20 years - and they've worked well.
There may be other, better choices out there, but due to the legacy in my workplace, we will be sticking with Seaward.
However, their PatGuard software is now sold on an annual subscription basis, which stings!

I would assume something barcode capable would be helpful when it comes time for a retest,

We originally bought barcode readers for our Seaward Europa Plus, but we rarely ever used them; this comes down to how our appliances are inventoried.
In our case, the appliances have an existing 5 digit inventory number - as the test options are chosen from button presses on the tester, it's far quicker to keep your hands on the keyboard and enter the digits (I can touch type on the Europa plus!), than to remove your hand, grab the scanner, scan the code and replace the scanner.
Thinking about your labeling may influence your decision here.

Also with the 'Pass' stickers - a PAT contractor may print out a new pass sticker and test number each time they test. Whereas we (with access to colour laser printers) print out a sheet of labels (Avery L7160) and they remain on the appliance for many years.
A simple date sticker (L7656) is stuck over the top, to indicate the retest date.
This may sound complicated, but it saves us a decent amount of money over the cost of the printing tapes from the PAT testers themselves - a cost that would usually be passed on through the contractors pricing.

I hope that make sense?

He absolutely MUST get a tester that can download it's results, the manual recording is what takes the most time so downloading the results from that many is important.

Agreed!

if he has to test 2k every year (yes I know it's not required yearly - but employers insist "just to be sure".)

Although having to account for many appliances, I have the benefit of being the one in control of the testing regime. Which means as long as I can justify a certain test frequency, with a thorough risk assessment (including a feedback mechanism for failures), I can choose frequencies that can save a significant amount of time.
For example, there are items such as servers in a tightly controlled server room. Allthough it sounds wasteful - they are on a five year rolling replacement programme. We perform a visual inspection when they arrive and they are inventoried, but the risk of an issue causing harm in their five year lifespan is so low, they will never be tested by us - if an issue was found, feedback into the RA would lead to an increased testing frequency.

So maximum for 8 hour day was 120 items, in real terms looking at 100 items by time it has been unplugged and plugged in again.

Albeit benefiting from like items being stored in cupboards, a couple of helpers, and basically a production line, my laboratory of 1000 appliances can be tested in a week (but you do start having PATest dreams !).

and with items like a computer I can enter same results for lead set and computer were with the auto one had to test twice for it to log two sets of results.

Items with separable leads are interesting - a contractor may charge them as two appliances and have two different appliance numbers.
I decide to add an 'L' to the end of the inventory number for the lead - leads have different ratings (most, especially those for IT use, are stamped as being 5A), so we provide some user education/tool box talks, to encourage leads to remain attached to the same appliance.

The other problem was some one fiddling the results, it recorded the results onto floppy disk, and it used VB, the user had to enter his code, which would result in his name on the print out, but there was no option to then remove the code, without entering another, so we had a code called unidentified that we could enter once we had finished, but every so often some one would forget to enter his code, I realised it was using VB so wrote a short program so I could correct errors when some one forgot to enter their code, however the foreman was caught changing the dates on entries and claiming the items had been re-tested when they had not, so keeping computer records was no good, they all had to be printed and the sheets signed, OK the short print so around 60 items per sheet, but we could not rely on computer records.

Although things have moved on from your experience, I still have to spend a couple of days a year cleaning up the database, where appliances may have been entered incorrectly etc.
Disposals, missing and personal items also need recording, deleting and moving around within the database as appropriate.

 

[reds42]

I had around 16'000 assets in my database - we have been using Seaward downloadable testers for 20 years - and they've worked well.
There may be other, better choices out there, but due to the legacy in my workplace, we will be sticking with Seaward.
However, their PatGuard software is now sold on an annual subscription basis, which stings!


We originally bought barcode readers for our Seaward Europa Plus, but we rarely ever used them; this comes down to how our appliances are inventoried.
In our case, the appliances have an existing 5 digit inventory number - as the test options are chosen from button presses on the tester, it's far quicker to keep your hands on the keyboard and enter the digits (I can touch type on the Europa plus!), than to remove your hand, grab the scanner, scan the code and replace the scanner.
Thinking about your labeling may influence your decision here.

Also with the 'Pass' stickers - a PAT contractor may print out a new pass sticker and test number each time they test. Whereas we (with access to colour laser printers) print out a sheet of labels (Avery L7160) and they remain on the appliance for many years.
A simple date sticker (L7656) is stuck over the top, to indicate the retest date.
This may sound complicated, but it saves us a decent amount of money over the cost of the printing tapes from the PAT testers themselves - a cost that would usually be passed on through the contractors pricing.

I hope that make sense?


Agreed!


Although having to account for many appliances, I have the benefit of being the one in control of the testing regime. Which means as long as I can justify a certain test frequency, with a thorough risk assessment (including a feedback mechanism for failures), I can choose frequencies that can save a significant amount of time.
For example, there are items such as servers in a tightly controlled server room. Allthough it sounds wasteful - they are on a five year rolling replacement programme. We perform a visual inspection when they arrive and they are inventoried, but the risk of an issue causing harm in their five year lifespan is so low, they will never be tested by us - if an issue was found, feedback into the RA would lead to an increased testing frequency.


Albeit benefiting from like items being stored in cupboards, a couple of helpers, and basically a production line, my laboratory of 1000 appliances can be tested in a week (but you do start having PATest dreams !).


Items with separable leads are interesting - a contractor may charge them as two appliances and have two different appliance numbers.
I decide to add an 'L' to the end of the inventory number for the lead - leads have different ratings (most, especially those for IT use, are stamped as being 5A), so we provide some user education/tool box talks, to encourage leads to remain attached to the same appliance.


Although things have moved on from your experience, I still have to spend a couple of days a year cleaning up the database, where appliances may have been entered incorrectly etc.
Disposals, missing and personal items also need recording, deleting and moving around within the database as appropriate.

Thanks for that, all most helpful. We had been wondering about printing out our own labels on one of our big colour copiers. Also interesting it being faster to use keypad over a barcode.

 

[RandomGrinch]

We had been wondering about printing out our own labels on one of our big colour copiers.

Yes, nothing wrong with that.
We used to have labels supplied by our safety division. They started charging for them, so we simply duplicated what they made on L7160 labels...


Names blanked to protect the guilty!

...it's also particularly handy that printing consumables come out of the administration budget!

 

[mattylad]

Another thing to consider is the recording, you need to record your results in a way that you can see previous results so that you can spot a change - meaning that you can potentially have something failing.

I export mine to spreadsheet format and import that into a new worksheet for each years tests but also keep a worksheet for repairs & repair notes, failures and what happens to the item etc.
AIUI the keeping of the records is more important than having a label (they just like the dates are not a requirement).

I would rather have a nice database program but they are too tight to spend on that so a spreadsheet it is.
I'm not finding much online in the way of templates others have made that we can use for free.

 

[Adam_151]

We use a Megger PAT420, I like it but you have to be familiar with it to not get frustrated by it, its got an internal database and its quick to enter an asset number and retest an item (I believe label printer and barcode scanner can be added). I tend to find though that those who only use it infrequently struggle with the searching by number, and you get duplicate items added with sometimes zeros inserted in or removed (i.e. if you use a two part reference, such $group-$item, and differnt people using it, sometimes you get some that would enter 05 and some that would enter 5 for five, which is alright, and I can live with as long as they find it again next time and test agaisnt the same record, but often they fail to that and you end up with another instance created with the other way around. Or sometimes they ignore it completly and book it against name or initials.

I have found that the database (which can be copied onto and restored from a USB stick) is an SQLlite database and there are tools to do manual operations on it on a PC, but it is a pain to do any serious tidying up this way, there are libraries for the likes of VB.net to work with it, so something could be written to assist with tidying it up, it would be better if I could manage to train folk to use it properly, but I imagine thats probably a bit of a forlorn hope, what do you think @RandomGrinch ?