peeling paint bathroom ceiling

[ChimesDesign]

A few months ago I redecorated a bathroom for a customer. The paint was peeling significantly from the ceiling and the plaster coving. I scrapped the paint away, sanded the ceiling, taking it back to the plaster board in most places. I primed the board with an acrylic primer. I used easifill where filling was needed. Once sanded I primed this with acrylic primer. I applied 2 coats of Zinsser to the ceiling and coving. The customer wanted a matt finish so I then used 2 coats of Johnstons Flat Oil paint on the recommendation of my paint supply shop. It went on well and the finish was flat and even.
2 months later and the cracking and flaking has started again on the ceiling and coving, mainly over the bath area. This time only the flat oil top coat appears to be coming away. The Zinsser coat looks sound.
I used the oil paint originally as I believed it would repel any moisture.
The bathroom has a window next to the shower (its a shower over the bath). Im told she leaves the window open whenever the shower is used. There is no extractor fan.
I am loathe to do any work to it until I know why its peeling. There are no water damage stains or discolouration. At the time of decorating I also washed down the tiles, grout and silicone which had lots of black spots of mould. These have already come back.
She has been told in the past that a fan is needed but is confident that the window is sufficient.
Any ideas please? Thanks

 

[confidentincompetent]

Seems you did all you could and, more. Obviously a condensation problem. Had similar with no extractor and they nearly fainted when I said window should be open while they were using shower/bath. I offered to get the Dulux rep to come and see why his paint had failed Or. They could get a surveyor and I would pay him and rectify if he blamed faulty workmanship. They backed off at that...Phew lol. I just scraped off loose and recoated with matt emulsion. (for a price though) Strangely though, when doing more work there I noticed the matt emulsion is still sound, maybe they open the window now?

 

[ChimesDesign]

Thanks.

Was I right in thinking that the flat oil should repel the moisture and would be just as efficient as soft sheen?

I hate any of the kitchen and bathroom type paints, they are a nightmare to apply, and never give a good finish no matter how carefully applied. I usually use soft sheen in bathrooms/kitchens and have never had any problems before. As the customer wanted a matt finish I went with the flat oil. Im thinking now that I should have just said no and insisted on soft sheen for the ceiling. Would that have faired any better in your opinion?
I do get the feeling that she is trying to get me to redo the ceiling free of charge. But I believe I did everything to a high standard (Im a perfectionist!) and the paints used were on the advice of the paint shop.

Even if I sand down the flaky areas and apply a couple of coats of soft sheen, whos to say it wont flake in a different area weeks later?!

 

[Zampa]

A very similar thing happened to me a while back..

The problem could be with the oil based paint...heres why..

I had a shower room ceiling that had been emulsioned by a right cowboy..or in this case...cowgirl!!!...the 'mist' coat was too thick and hadnt taken to plaster in places.

I scraped off the worst and touched it up with acrylic before filling and bringing forward with oil based undercoat.

I then undercoated the whole ceiling and gave it two coats of dulux flat oil...with 4 weeks it was flaking...badly

The customer rang me with the 'your paints flaking' line!...i was there within two hours!..fearing the wrost

When i check it I found 'my' paint wasnt lfaking at all..it was all of the paint...exposing the bare plaster again...worse n the corners and where two ceiling had met at an angle

The only thing that couls have caused this to happen so quick was the suface tension on the oil based paint...shrinking slightly as it dried it had stuck well to the paint below causing it to lift from the plaster becasue it hadnt stuck very well before.

I rang dulux who backed this theory up..ok I got off the hook...but it was a lesson learnt!

And just goes to show...we never stop learning

 

[ChimesDesign]

Hi Zampa,
In your opinion could this shrinkage problem have occured between a coat of zinsser (shellac based, the red tin) and the flat oil then? The zinsser coat seems to be intact, its only the flat oil thats flaking away.
Do you think sanding the surface down, removing the flaky areas that 'want' to come off, would be sufficient prep for a new top coat? And also what top coat would you use over flat oil?!
This job looked to be a bit of a nightmare when I first went to see it!
I did say to her maybe she could get her insurance company come and have a look to see if a surveyor could tell if there was a damp/condensation problem and the small window is not sufficient ventilation. At the moment she just wants me to sort it out, but Im stumped as to what to do next because I dont want to lose time and money if there is an underlying problem!
Thanks.

 

[Growler]

This is real difficult because the original Zinsser has stayed on.. I'm not keen on flat oil.
Get yourself an audible damp meter, I never leave home without one.

Sorry can't help much ...

good job it wasn't "Rich Matt". (joke)

 

[Zampa]

This is real difficult because the original Zinsser has stayed on.. I'm not keen on flat oil.
Get yourself an audible damp meter, I never leave home without one.

Sorry can't help much ...

good job it wasn't "Rich Matt". (joke)

Or one coat weathershield gloss eh...

(sorry chimes...private joke)

Hmmm..that might have thrown a different light on it...a possible incompatability issue between the two.

Or a surfaces tension issue...allthough neither seems to point why.

Trouble is if you rinf either manufacturer they will use the same xcuse about other paint..which in my opinion is crap...

I think your only option now is what you have said...sanding down preppin and recoating.

I dont think its damp/condensation...it should get between the coats like that.

 

[confidentincompetent]

Thanks.

Was I right in thinking that the flat oil should repel the moisture and would be just as efficient as soft sheen?

I hate any of the kitchen and bathroom type paints, they are a nightmare to apply, and never give a good finish no matter how carefully applied. I usually use soft sheen in bathrooms/kitchens and have never had any problems before. As the customer wanted a matt finish I went with the flat oil. Im thinking now that I should have just said no and insisted on soft sheen for the ceiling. Would that have faired any better in your opinion?
I do get the feeling that she is trying to get me to redo the ceiling free of charge. But I believe I did everything to a high standard (Im a perfectionist!) and the paints used were on the advice of the paint shop.



Even if I sand down the flaky areas and apply a couple of coats of soft sheen, whos to say it wont flake in a different area weeks later?!

Hmm I'm starting to ave doubts about the flat oil paint. If I remember rightly this is for interior use only. Perhaps it could'nt take all that steam?
If it was me I would scrape off loose and recoat in either soft sheen or quick drying eggshell. if they insist on matt then matt emulsion.

see you used the 'shellac bin' was this because of stains ? myself I would have used 123 as a primer for the bare area's .
good luck..






Hello zampa/growler

 

[Growler]

Hmm I'm starting to ave doubts about the flat oil paint. If I remember rightly this is for interior use only. Perhaps it could'nt take all that steam?

That's a good point from Confident.
Some women though, use bathrooms like "steam rooms" , I know 1 that turns the shower on, goes out the bathroom, leaves it running for at least 5 minutes, then decides to go and have a shower (or whatever). The whole procedure takes about 20 - 25 minutes.
A building just can't stand this form of abuse, let alone paint.

When confronted with these probs in the past (ceilings, not women) I've either used oil based undercoat and gloss, old fashioned I know and it doesn't help with your matt finish, or Johnstone's exterior Stormshield masonry paint.

Perhaps you could delicately suggest to her that you'd be willing to give her a quick "flannel over", thus avoiding any recurrence of .."peeling, black spot and mould", and then, there's the ceiling and walls to deal with.

 

[Zampa]

Hmm I'm starting to ave doubts about the flat oil paint. If I remember rightly this is for interior use only. Perhaps it could'nt take all that steam?

That's a good point from Confident.
Some women though, use bathrooms like "steam rooms" , I know 1 that turns the shower on, goes out the bathroom, leaves it running for at least 5 minutes, then decides to go and have a shower (or whatever). The whole procedure takes about 20 - 25 minutes.
A building just can't stand this form of abuse, let alone paint.

When confronted with these probs in the past (ceilings, not women) I've either used oil based undercoat and gloss, old fashioned I know and it doesn't help with your matt finish, or Johnstone's exterior Stormshield masonry paint.

Perhaps you could delicately suggest to her that you'd be willing to give her a quick "flannel over", thus avoiding any recurrence of .."peeling, black spot and mould", and then, there's the ceiling and walls to deal with.

Hello C/C

The reason its interior only could be like oil based eggshell...the paint film is to brittle to stand up to the expansion and contraction of some outside surfaces....I would have thought that matt emulsion would be just as permeable as flat oil though and thats common on most ceilings but the problem doesnt happen..

I'll ask the rep next he's not too busy playing golf with the main contrators in our area..

 

[thebest19929292]

A few months ago I redecorated a bathroom for a customer. The paint was peeling significantly from the ceiling and the plaster coving. I scrapped the paint away, sanded the ceiling, taking it back to the plaster board in most places. I primed the board with an acrylic primer. I used easifill where filling was needed. Once sanded I primed this with acrylic primer. I applied 2 coats of Zinsser to the ceiling and coving. The customer wanted a matt finish so I then used 2 coats of Johnstons Flat Oil paint on the recommendation of my paint supply shop. It went on well and the finish was flat and even.
2 months later and the cracking and flaking has started again on the ceiling and coving, mainly over the bath area. This time only the flat oil top coat appears to be coming away. The Zinsser coat looks sound.
I used the oil paint originally as I believed it would repel any moisture.
The bathroom has a window next to the shower (its a shower over the bath). Im told she leaves the window open whenever the shower is used. There is no extractor fan.
I am loathe to do any work to it until I know why its peeling. There are no water damage stains or discolouration. At the time of decorating I also washed down the tiles, grout and silicone which had lots of black spots of mould. These have already come back.
She has been told in the past that a fan is needed but is confident that the window is sufficient.
Any ideas please? Thanks

Using shellac based paints such as zinsser B.I.N, in a high condensation area is always going to give you problems. It shouldn't be used on plasterboard at all. To fix the problem with a flaking ceiling, you will have to sand the surface down really well, scrape back all the old flaky and peeling paint, then apply a generous coat of zinsser peel stop. When this dries, fill any imperfections, sand and touch up the filled areas with peel stop again. Once this has dried, apply 2-3 coats (depending on the ceiling) of zinsser Perma White Matt finish. This can put up with harsh conditions such as shower rooms which are poorly ventilated.

Note: during this whole process, no one should use the shower or bath until 24 hours after completion.

 

[joe-90]

This thread is from 2007. I bet he's sorted it by now.