Pipe noises!

[The Incredible Hulk]

Every so often, there is no pattern to it, a pipe below our (first floor) floorboards makes a strange groaning noise. The pipe I believe runs between our bedroom and the ensuite shower room. When it is making a noise and you walk across the area where the pipe probably is it can change the noise and if you balance correctly it can all but disappear. After groaning for a few minutes it goes quiet. I checked the pipes in the shower room and noticed that the vibration could be felt through the cold water tap pipe, so I switched it on and hey presto the noise disappeared - however if I turned the tap off before the usual two minutes duration it immediately came back.

So what's changed in our house, well we have a new boiler fitted - A valiant combi replacing the Glow worm system that stored the hot water (can't remember the name of the system). Whilst the water pressure seems to have increased since that change, I should state that the noise was there before the change but not as frequent our as loud, its getting worse.

Before I lift the carpet then floorboards (& you know in new houses they don;t really have floorboards just this cheap stuff) are there any other suggestions as to what maybe causing this? Is it just a pipe that as moved in its seating? Finally the is nothing obvious that comes on either before or after the noise, the heating is not on and now one is using the shower etc (the noise quite often kicks in at 5AM).

regards, Kevin.

P.S I live in a three bedroom semi, downstairs toilet, upstairs bathroom and as I said ensuite shower room.

 

[bellairaphon]

sounds like a case of water hammer caused by insufficent pipe brackets, sound would have got worse now you are on mains pressure throughout the house and not gravity fed as before pressuming they where indirect before. you could try closing your stop cock abit might help. hope ya sort it

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Many thanks for tip, it has helped the situation with the frequency and noise levels reduced though not completely eliminated. I suspect to completely resolve the situation I will need to lift floor boards and address the pipe vibration. Is it simply just buying some pipe clips from a local supplier and attaching them or is there something else I should be aware of? I only want to lift the boards once and the minimum I can get away with.

kind regards, Kevin.

 

[bellairaphon]

glad to hear it. yeah thats all you need to do clip or bracket the pipe at 1800mm intervals. and if you can check to see how deep they are in the notches(if in notches) along the joists.

Nathan

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

Well at long last I lifted the floor covering in the shower room to attack the floorboards and resolve this annoying noise! Oh no, as many of you will well know new houses don't have floorboards and tend to have these large panels which I guess are put down before the interior walls are put in place. So, as far as I can surmise, I will need to cut one of these panels to gain access under the floor as its size means it ends in the adjoining room after passing under an interior wall. I'm now starting to doubt my capability and consider how much of a mess I will end up causing! As I said earlier I've turned back the stoptap and whilst this helped initially things are still very noisy, particularly late in the night or first thing in the morning.

What I would like to understand is how water hammer occurs? There are no devices which kick-in when the noise occurs - the heating is off and no one is having a shower at nigh on midnight? What acutally causes the bloomin pipe and water in it to make this noise? As I said earlier when I turn the cold tap on up the stairs the noise stops, but will come straight back if the tap is turned off before its finished - its seems to take an average amount of time from making the noise before stopping again (roughly 1 to 2 mins). I also noticed that if I grab the cold tap pipe under the washbasin in the shower room and put pressure on it (pull it toward me) the noise starts to disappear. In addition if you stand on what I guess is a floor joist between the shower room and the bedroom the noise can dramatically change to be either louder or nearly disappear. I'm wondering if the problem lies with the pipe going through the floor joist!

Sorry, enough of my mad rambling - what I'm asking are there any other potential solutions apart from floorboard removal and further stoptap adjustments that will address the noise, or should I give up and call someone in

regards, Kevin.

 

[spacethegas]

floor will have to come up to rectify.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

floor will have to come up to rectify.

thought that might be the case

One thing I can't get me head around is all the articles I've read on water hammer relate to a tap or similar being turned off causing the situation. When ours occurs nothing is being turned on or off? Why would the hammer occur? By the way it sounds more like a bloomin drill / fog horn when it starts

regards, Kevin

 

[spacethegas]

just a thought.
it might be worth fitting a small expansion vessel on the cold water inlet to the boiler.
this should cost very little & might be worth trying first.

 

[The Incredible Hulk]

floor will have to come up to rectify.

thought that might be the case

One thing I can't get me head around is all the articles I've read on water hammer relate to a tap or similar being turned off causing the situation. When ours occurs nothing is being turned on or off? Why would the hammer occur? By the way it sounds more like a bloomin drill / fog horn when it starts

regards, Kevin

I thought it would be at the very least worthwhile updating the outcome, even if it is slightly embarrasing!

Basically as I prepared to get someone to rip up the floorboards and 'sort out the pipe' I kept asking myself why the 'water hammer' seemed to occur as there was nothing obvious to trigger it. Whilst surfing various websites using pipe noise as a search heading I stumbled across one area that suggested strange noises could be related to a malfunctioning ballcock valve in the toilet. So next time the noise went off I grabbed a screwdriver and turned to off the little service valve at the water intake to the cistern - hey presto noise stopped immediately. It then, after a few checks, became apparent that the noise was linked to this area but due to the slient nature of the fill mechanism and the fact it 'seemed' to happen well after the flush I hadn't made the connection - it seemed to only occur just as the cistern reached its fill point. I popped down to B&Q bought a new unit for under £10, replaced the existing device and its all been silent since!

I suspect more problems will surface as the heating kicks back in over the next few months and the change to a high pressure system finds any weak points - must turn the intake water valve down a few more notches.

regards, Kevin.