Planning Permission Needed?

[mbro]

Hi All,

I have a conservatory at the back of the house, approx. 3m x 3m. It is a traditional conservatory, dwarf wall with glass all round, separated from the house by a double glazed external grade sliding door.

I am looking to replace the conservatory and increase it to 4m x 6m, however I will be having the left hand side completely bricked, the right side will be bricked with a window and then across the back I am having 4m wide bi-fold doors.

I will still be keeping the external doors between the house and the new conservatory/room.

Having read around I don't believe I will need planning etc, however will obviously build to building regs. I understand that as I am changing the size of the base I will need to consult building control to ensure stability.

My wife has today spoke to planning and been advised we now need a SAP calc as the total size of the glazing is in excess of 25% of the floor space. I am somewhat confused by this as we are keeping the external door between the house and the new build, so based on the info on the government planning portal we shouldn't need SAP calcs etc.

Can anyone give their experiences or thoughts on this please?

All responses greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[garyo]

What are you doing with the roof - keeping it as glass, or replacing with more 'traditional' slate/tile timber?

 

[mbro]

Thanks Garyo

We are putting a lantern roof on, though not on the full roof. Lantern is measuring 4m x 2m, roof size is same as overall 6m x 4m.

Remainder of the roof is flat roof, covered with rubberoid.

Thanks

 

[tony1851]

If you are keeping the separation between the extension and the rest of the house, it can still be classed as a conservatory. In that case, as it will be less than 30 sq. m. in floor area, Building Regs would not apply (except for electrical work and safety glazing). So forget SAP calculations.

Going out 4m, it would need planning permission (unless your house is a detached, or you have gone through the neighbour consultation scheme).

 

[mbro]

Thanks Tony that's as I understood it from my reading.

One other topic that has cropped up is structural calcs, we have been told we aren't allowed to begin building without them submitted and approved. There are obvious benefits to us having these correctly done just intrigued how this ties in to your reference above of building regs not applying or would the structural calcs more be for our peace of mind I knowing it isn't going to collapse etc as much as a formal requirement?

Once again, many thanks.

 

[garyo]

Has something changed in the interpretation of the law here? A year ago there was a trap you could fall in to, in that the percentage of glazing required to class as a conservatory (~75% IIRC) had been dropped from planning law due to it being abysmal in heat loss terms, but that building regs departments had been given guidance to keep using that rule in order to determine whether something was actually a conservatory or not?

I have a similar structure and have been laying low, having disagreed with my BCO over it whilst he was on site looking at a separate activity...

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

but that building regs departments had been given guidance to keep using that rule in order to determine whether something was actually a conservatory or not?

Yes but you have the right nail on the right head in your terminology, it is guidance not law.

 

[tony1851]

building regs departments had been given guidance

The guidance local authorities have been given by DCLG is half-baked.

Councils are told that there must be thermal separation, separate heating, and <30 sq. m., but also it goes on to say;

'The decision on whether a conservatory or porch extension is exempt is a matter for building control bodies on a case by case basis taking account of the conditions above and the amount of glazing that makes up the new walls and roof.'

So we are back to square one because nowhere is it stated explicitly what the percentage of wall- and roof glazing there should be.

Councils will, of course, interpret this so as to bring in as many applications (and fees) as possible.

 

[garyo]

Ah right - I thought for a moment they may have come to their senses and sorted it out.

So to the OP - I was in exactly your situation two years ago with conservatory that was only usable at the right time of year. It's now a sun-roof that's 60% brick and tiled roof, still thermally separated, lots of glass in the walls and Velux in the roof, and is a much better space.

Unfortunately I was in the position that I'd never be able to make it comply with modern regs because the foundations weren't really deep enough, and the walls were 50mm cavity (okay, I could overcome that one)

The conversation with my BCO on site was along the lines of

BCO : What's that over there!?
Me: A conservatory
BCO : No it isn't - its an extension
Me: It has separating doors and no heating, it's a sun room, or rear-porch if you prefer
BCO: But you could remove the separating doors a month from now and it'd be an extension
<At this point I'm getting somewhat confused, as it's turning in to a hypothetical argument over the legality of things I *could* do, rather than *have* done>
Me: But the law was changed - there's no glazing requirement - it's just a rear porch/conservatory.
BCO: Hmmm let's just deal with getting the other main extension signed off for now and we'll come back to that as a separate issue.

All of my fingers and toes are still crossed... I've never heard another word on it.

Perhaps an approach would be to do the SAP calc yourself on a fag packet just so that you know you're thermal compensations for the bi-folds have you on safe ground in case this comes back to bite you, but then just do it and don't tell anyone.

I don't know the individual day to day mentality of each LBC authority towards this issue as I'm not in the industry like Freddie and Tony, but if I was a BCO on the ground I suspect I'd be able to see someone who's 'taking the ****' so to speak - i.e. a blatent single story knock-through kitchen/diner extension, scantly finished with token external doors just to get the BC sign-off and then they're going to get the jackhammer out!

Gary