conservatory and planning permission

[hettie]

hi
Just been in touch with local planning department and they were useless on giving me adivice.

We are a detatched house and in 2006 we had a side extension built which only needed a planning application on one criteria, ie that the pitch of the house was 4m 30cm so we went over the 4m rule. The extension on the side is a wheelie bin width from the next house and that house forms the boundary. The original extension is set back from the front of the house and the back wall is flush with the back wall of the original property

we want to add a conservatory for the room on the back of it with the wall of the conservatory continuing the wall of the extension and keeping a wheelie bin width path. We will not be covering more than 50% of the original land before the house. The conservatory is less than 4m extending from the back of the extension which is flush with the original house hence meeting that under 4m rule for extending beyond the back of the original house.
We meet other requirements like height of eaves within 2m of a boundary being under 3m etc
I cant see under what requirement this isnt permitted development but the council lady kept going on that building it on the back of an extension changes it. I gave her the example of if we had built this extension larger to project back past the back of the original property and the height hadn't gone over the 4m that would have been permitted development so I can't see why now this separate project would be any different in planning rules as it doesn't go over the heights or back more than 4m from the line of the original property. I can't see any rule where it states you can't build on to an extension.

Please can someone advise?

Many thanks
Hettie

 

[tony1851]

hi
Just been in touch with local planning department and they were useless on giving me adivice.

What a surprise.

Your (latest) extension would not be permitted development because it would connect with the previous extension, and the combined extension would therefore be more than one-half the width of the original house.

 

[hettie]

Thanks however as it connects onto the back of the extension, not the side) it is the same width as the original extension and is less than half the width of the house (about a 3rd). The original extension only needed planning permission on the grounds the ridge tiles were at 4m 30cm so we were 30cm over the height. So I don't think we fall foul of permitted development on that criteria.

The back of the extension is flush with the house and therefore leaves us with 4m to jutt out at the back and we are building a conservatory that fits within that limit

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

Your (latest) extension would not be permitted development because it would connect with the previous extension, and the combined extension would therefore be more than one-half the width of the original house.

I've been giving this some thought today tony, the OP is not making it any wider than the extension and has not said how far the extension projects to the side.

 

[nickjb]

AIUI the 4m rule is 4m back from the original house so you can't extend rearward from a side extension under PD. So you can do a side extension and a rear extension but you can't fill in the corner

Pic from the planning portal showing a legal rear and side (ignore the dims)

 

[tony1851]

Yes, my mistake; I was no good at comprehension tests in English lessons anyway.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I think what I am thinking is can you add PD development to something that was not PD? I don’t believe the legislation specifically says whether this can be done or not. I don’t think its quite as clear as the OP likes to think. There are many areas of PD that are a bit grey.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

AIUI the 4m rule is 4m back from the original house so you can't extend rearward from a side extension under PD. So you can do a side extension and a rear extension but you can't fill in the corner

Pic from the planning portal showing a legal rear and side (ignore the dims)

If I understand the OP correctly though they are only extending onto the rear of the side extension, they don't have a rear extension.

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PDforhouseholders_TechnicalGuidance.pdf page 17 of the tech guidance

 

[tony1851]

AIUI the 4m rule is 4m back from the original house so you can't extend rearward from a side extension under PD.

You can; it's a case of extending not more than 4m beyond the line of the original rear wall (ie the line projected sideways).
That's how appeal cases look at it, anyway

 

[hettie]

Yes I looked at the tech guidance and there isn't an example to support our case either way! We aren't filling in a corner, just adding a conservatory on the back of a side extension. Pd can include an extension on the side that projects back passed the rear of the property if it meets all its requirements eg not back past 4m, the eaves rules and height rules etc. that is in effect what we are creating but I see the grey area of putting a pd on the back of a non-Pd. Anyone care to comment on that?

 

[hettie]

AIUI the 4m rule is 4m back from the original house so you can't extend rearward from a side extension under PD.

You can; it's a case of extending not more than 4m beyond the line of the original rear wall (ie the line projected sideways).
That's how appeal cases look at it, anyway

Yes that's what we mean. It won't be more than 4m back from the original property as the extension sits flush with the rear of the original property ( I can't do comprehension tests either!)

 

[hettie]

AIUI the 4m rule is 4m back from the original house so you can't extend rearward from a side extension under PD. So you can do a side extension and a rear extension but you can't fill in the corner

Pic from the planning portal showing a legal rear and side (ignore the dims)

If I understand the OP correctly though they are only extending onto the rear of the side extension, they don't have a rear extension.

Yes that it right! we don't have a rear extension just a side. You couldnt fill in the corner of that example as you would fall foul of the half house width rule when you added all the extensions together.

 

[hettie]

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/uploads/100806_PDforhouseholders_TechnicalGuidance.pdf page 17 of the tech guidance

Page 17 is what we are effectively doing. Except the original side extension doesnt go to the front of the property so cut a bit off the front and it stops a the rear of the property. THe conservatory would then be on the back extending from the back rear wall of the original extension which is flush with the back of the property.

SO we are down to a debate whether we can put a PD on an extension that require planning only due to its height. Had we pitched the roof differently we might have done it under pd but we would have had a smaller room to enable the roof to do that so we had to go with the planning permission for that.

THe conservatory definitely meets all the other criteria in that tech document but we are putting pd on a non-pd allebeit with full planning consent.

Hmmm

 

[freddiemercurystwin]

I think what I am thinking is can you add PD development to something that was not PD? I don’t believe the legislation specifically says whether this can be done or not.

As mentioned above.

Unfortunately what we need is for someone (like the OP) to try to do it under PD and if it is refused see what happens on appeal.